kid issues--depression, anger, behavior in general

[Sensitive Topic]

Ok... posting ST to protect my son's privacy...

My boy is almost 8 years old and has been a challenging kid a lot of his life but in the last month or so things have gotten really difficult. I don't know where to start but where we're at right now is that I have made an appointment for my son to see an allergist doctor to find out about food sensitivities. My boy is angry, sad, says his stomach or head hurts, basically some or all of these things several times a day. He loses his temper at the slightest thing. I don't really understand what all constitutes "the spectrum" or if he is on it even, but I am suspecting that he might benefit from some dietary restrictions, maybe similar to GFCF stuff... possibly, probably. That's going to be a big leap for our family, we pretty much eat a standard American diet but it will be good for us all if we have to change it. I am acting on advice from my good friend who suggested we have him get tested by a doctor to see if he really does have allergies instead of doing a food elimination diet on our own.

The appointment isn't for about 2 more months though and I need some ideas for coping with his behaviors. It is hard on me to deal with how he treats me and I need ideas for how I can not take it personally. If that makes sense. We homeschool so I'm around him a lot. My dh has suggested putting ds in school and maybe at some point we will try that alternative but at this point I really believe it would just be detrimental.

I have become less punitive with him over the last few weeks, I used to take away his online and video game priveleges when he was disrespectful, especially while working on his schoolwork with him. I am not doing that anymore as it was making our relationship more adversarial. Now I try to just put him in his room and I try to not lose my temper and I am getting better at that. I have also relaxed what I require from him for schoolwork and that seems to be helping too.

He says things, every day, like this: "Sorry I'm such an idiot." "I don't deserve that." "I hate myself." I try to get him to replace these things with more positive statements and he rarely will say the positive things. He has threatened to hurt himself and worse. He has tried to hurt himself.

I need ideas. I need reassurance that this isn't my fault. I need to know if it will get better. I feel so badly for him, he sounds so sad and I don't know why it has to be like this for him.

[anna v]

Can you see a developmental paed or a psychologist? It sounds to me like he needs assessment so that you guys can work together on what is going on.

My experience of diet is that it can help but you're still left with the underlying issues, especially if it is spectrummy issues. So I'd be looking at both approaches not just one.

[Katatonic]

Apart from the homeschooling, this could be my DS. He's nearly eight and a half. We saw a developmental paed a couple of days ago, and she recommended strategies for coping with the behaviours and referred us to a psychologist, as she believes some CBT may help to change the negative self-talk and sadness. Is your son a perfectionist? Mine is, and I have the impression that a lot of negativity comes from a fear that he might not do something well so it's easier to make excuses and blame others.

The paed told us to stop pulling him up on everything, and to let the "smaller stuff go through to the keeper". Sounds like you are already doing this, and I must say that even in a couple of days things have improved for us.

Good luck, please let me know if you'd like me to add more on what we were told.

Kate

[Storymama]

I think it would be okay to start a food journal at least now - it'll make your visit in 2 months go more quickly. Have you read the book "Is This Your Child?" It is THE guide to sorting out food issues (there are other good books about specifics, but this is the starting place.) The elimination diet described in there takes 11 days, which is much much sooner than 2 months. Even if you decide to wait for the allergist, it would be good info to arm yourself with, in advance of the appointment.

I also think you might consider whether the behaviors you are seeing are actually migraine in nature. Migraines are *so* much more than Just a Headache. IMO, they are actually closer to the seizure spectrum of issues. They are completely personality altering, behavior altering, etc. Tori will go from perky to morose in minutes when she gets one, and I've said a few things I would NEVER EVER EVER say under normal circumstances. And it's not just feeling pissy or PMSy . . . it's like having someone else controlling your mouth, very altered. Migraines also cause nausea, which is what made me think it might be worth looking at for you guys.

Food sensitivities and migraines often go hand in hand, and can be tied up together. The other thing to get a handle on with food sensitivities is that they can cause craving, once you try to eliminate the suspected item (which is itself a red flag for sensitivity/allergy.) Sometimes foods we sensitive too create a reaction in the body called opiate-peptides and when we don't get that, we start to crave the thing that gives us the opiate-peptide response. It can actually lead to - just in the short term, while you're clearing out the thing to which you're allergic/sensitive - behavior that is very similar to drug-seeking. Getting Tori off gluten was like that :eyes: - she was literally throwing a 2-year old style tantrum on the floor, claiming we didn't love her and were trying to starve her because of No More (gluten) Pasta. Sounds funny now, but not so much in the moment.

You may be right that there is also a psych component happening here, but my own experience with food issues are that they CREATE so much (pseudo) psych symptoms, that I would want to clear that up first (ASAP) and then be able to get a TRUE bead on the mental health concerns. What goes in the mouth is optional, you know? That's the element you HAVE control over. What comes next, if it's a direct result, may as well be as clear as possible, right?

[lindavw]

We've had a lot of success with behavioral issues like this using homeopathy - actually going to a specialist. What's also worked for us is easing the expectations and increasing the fun.

[gfrach]

have made an appointment for my son to see an allergist doctor to find out about food sensitivities. .

Just want to point out that allergy testing will not pick up food sensitivities. It will pick up food allergies. Most people who are doing dietary changes for behavior are doing it because of sensitivities rather than allergies. We have done allergy testing for both C and I and came up with nothing, yet it's quite obvious we have a lot of food sensitivities.

Secondly, I'll recommend my two favorite parenting books if you haven't read them--Playful Parenting by Lawrence Cohen and Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka.

If you've read those and still need more help, I do like Transforming the Difficult Child (esp the first part--I'm not crazy about the reward system that's suggested in the book but the other stuff is great).

The quickest trick I can suggest for you is to find ways to show him you love him when he's being neither good nor bad. Say he's watching TV, you could walk past and rub his shoulder briefly, or whatever would work for him. It's really powerful for them to understand they're loved always not just when they're good.

It's not your fault and it's not his fault. It's just who he is and he's going to need extra support.

Oh another book that might be helpful, The Optimistic Child.

I'll keep you both in my prayers, if that's ok.

Huge hugs!

[Debra]

This sounds almost *exactly* like what we went through with Alex when he the exact same age (he turned 9 in the middle of all this). Please feel free to PM, email (debrajackson@gmail.com) or call me. I'll be happy to give you my phone number.

Can I ask what makes you think it is food related? The reason I ask is that Alex's issues were not food related at all, it was all due to stress and depression. He went from a protective big brother to hitting Colin a LOT, he would come home from school and lie on his bed in the dark staring at the ceiling, not talking. When he did talk, he was surly, short and rude. Any thing punitive made the behavior 20 times worse. Then he developed a facial tick. It was horrifying, possibly the worst year of my life. :sob:

DH had, at that point, been out of work for nearly a year so we had no insurance. I couldn't afford to take him to a therapist without insurance. I did get some books from the library on stressed out/depressed kids and I worried a lot and cried a lot.

What ended up helping was identifying what was causing him the severe stress and depression and removing as much of that as possible. I pulled him from school (one of his biggest issues, it was a new school and it was HORRIBLE) and homeschooling him. That had an immediate effect and he responded wonderfully (but we still had behaviour problems). We stopped ALL punitive parenting and instead talkedtalkedtalkedtalked to him about how he was feeling, what we expected out of him, how we wanted to help him, etc. It took time and a crapload of talking, but it helped. Then we moved to a more cheerful apartment, a better area, and put him into a fabulous school. I'm very happy to say he made a 100% recovery. All of this was 3+ years ago.

I had a lot of stomach problems and headaches/migraines as a kid. While migraines do run in the family, it was all stress (and seems so obvious looking back). I grew up in an extremely (IMO) abusive household and my stomach was constantly in knots and the stress manifested in daily headaches and stomach aches. My folks had all kinds of medical tests taken to no avail (although NO therapy :rolleyes:).

Of course I would check out EVERYTHING, but is there a specific reason you suspect food? Is there any possibility it could be stress/depression? I would recommend a therapist as well as checking into food sensitivities/allergies.

{{{{{{{{{{{ST & Son}}}}}}}}}}} You are very much in my thoughts. I know what pain I went through and I can only imagine what you and your son are going through. I really hope things get better very soon.

ETA: Another thing we did was to really focus on spending a lot more one on one time with him. It sounds small, but I really think it did a lot to help him. I mean, it's not like we were ignoring him before that, it's just we made more of an effort to engage him in activities that HE liked. DH and I played a lot of video games WITH him at that time,. He would really loosen up after a while and would actually seem happy. I really do think spending time with him doing things he really liked made a difference. He also had no friends at all then (we had just moved) so it was really necessary for us to help fill that as much as possible. ST, it ISN'T your fault and he WILL get better. My Alex is a bit on the more sensitive side, and he also tends to be very hard on himself (OMG he is SO much like me). This is NOT your fault. he is lucky to have parents who are concerned enough to do all of this for him. I got some HORRIBLE advice when we were going through this (some of it from a YAAPSter or two) that we should be MORE punitive and take away privileges because of the behaviour, but I could NOT do it. I knew it would push him over the edge. I *knew* the behaviour was a side effect of a much deeper problem. The last last thing my son needed was for me to crack the hell down on him at his LOWEST moment of his life. :-( I'm glad I did NOT listen to that advice and that I followed my heart. Because, not to be corny, but he IS my heart. I wanted to HELP him, not punish him.

I think you are doing a fabulous job and he is so lucky that you are his mother. :grouphug:

[lunita]

Of course I would check out EVERYTHING, but is there a specific reason you suspect food? Is there any possibility it could be stress/depression? I would recommend a therapist as well as checking into food sensitivities/allergies.



I totally agree with this post. The behavior sounds like it is, well, behavioral in nature. I would look at psychological and interpersonal issues as being the most likely cause.


((ST))

[Debra]

Is your son a perfectionist?

My son is a perfectionist as well and it has definitely played a part. Interesting.

[Amanda_Reyasmom]

This sounds almost *exactly* like what we went through with Alex when he the exact same age (he turned 9 in the middle of all this).
Reya just turned 9 and we're going through very similar things.



What ended up helping was identifying what was causing him the severe stress and depression and removing as much of that as possible. I pulled him from school (one of his biggest issues, it was a new school and it was HORRIBLE) and homeschooling him. That had an immediate effect and he responded wonderfully (but we still had behaviour problems). We stopped ALL punitive parenting and instead talkedtalkedtalkedtalked to him about how he was feeling, what we expected out of him, how we wanted to help him, etc. It took time and a crapload of talking, but it helped.
I pulled Reya too and it's helping so much. Reya'd rather gouge out her good eye than talk to her *mother* about her feelings :gross: so really around here it's a lot of ME talking and she occasionally will join in. Mostly it's how we want to help her and especially how we're on the same team. She doesn't want to be sad and I don't want her to be sad yk.


ETA: Another thing we did was to really focus on spending a lot more one on one time with him. It sounds small, but I really think it did a lot to help him. I mean, it's not like we were ignoring him before that, it's just we made more of an effort to engage him in activities that HE liked. DH and I played a lot of video games WITH him at that time,. He would really loosen up after a while and would actually seem happy. I really do think spending time with him doing things he really liked made a difference. . My Alex is a bit on the more sensitive side, and he also tends to be very hard on himself (OMG he is SO much like me).
OMG the engaging is so important. I can't do dishes while she's doing math or reading or whatever, I have to be RIGHT there. It's very much like she's back in that clingy toddler stage.


I think you are doing a fabulous job and he is so lucky that you are his mother. :grouphug:
Me too ST

[Kathy 4J mom]

We've been going through this with Jonah in similar ways (he turned 9 in October) He has a tic, his school work is going uncompleted (my 100 kid). He was diagnosed with asthma during this time. We've been to the doctor 2 times in the last week and a half. I had an intake interview at our local mental health facility Friday. I have to walk in with him this week to let him see the therapist (1st available appt is in april). Stress is a huge deal. For us it started when I started working more and they started spending more time with their layed off dad. He hasn't hurt himself or threatened to.

(((((ST))))) Please pursue more than just allergies. IF that ends up being a contributor then it will help to treat it. but waiting that long to start to look into other possibilities will further delay getting to the root of the problem. Deborah had some great information and BTDT.


This sounds almost *exactly* like what we went through with Alex when he the exact same age (he turned 9 in the middle of all this). Please feel free to PM, email (debrajackson@gmail.com) or call me. I'll be happy to give you my phone number.

Can I ask what makes you think it is food related? The reason I ask is that Alex's issues were not food related at all, it was all due to stress and depression. He went from a protective big brother to hitting Colin a LOT, he would come home from school and lie on his bed in the dark staring at the ceiling, not talking. When he did talk, he was surly, short and rude. Any thing punitive made the behavior 20 times worse. Then he developed a facial tick. It was horrifying, possibly the worst year of my life. :sob:

DH had, at that point, been out of work for nearly a year so we had no insurance. I couldn't afford to take him to a therapist without insurance. I did get some books from the library on stressed out/depressed kids and I worried a lot and cried a lot.

What ended up helping was identifying what was causing him the severe stress and depression and removing as much of that as possible. I pulled him from school (one of his biggest issues, it was a new school and it was HORRIBLE) and homeschooling him. That had an immediate effect and he responded wonderfully (but we still had behaviour problems). We stopped ALL punitive parenting and instead talkedtalkedtalkedtalked to him about how he was feeling, what we expected out of him, how we wanted to help him, etc. It took time and a crapload of talking, but it helped. Then we moved to a more cheerful apartment, a better area, and put him into a fabulous school. I'm very happy to say he made a 100% recovery. All of this was 3+ years ago.

I had a lot of stomach problems and headaches/migraines as a kid. While migraines do run in the family, it was all stress (and seems so obvious looking back). I grew up in an extremely (IMO) abusive household and my stomach was constantly in knots and the stress manifested in daily headaches and stomach aches. My folks had all kinds of medical tests taken to no avail (although NO therapy :rolleyes:).

Of course I would check out EVERYTHING, but is there a specific reason you suspect food? Is there any possibility it could be stress/depression? I would recommend a therapist as well as checking into food sensitivities/allergies.

{{{{{{{{{{{ST & Son}}}}}}}}}}} You are very much in my thoughts. I know what pain I went through and I can only imagine what you and your son are going through. I really hope things get better very soon.

ETA: Another thing we did was to really focus on spending a lot more one on one time with him. It sounds small, but I really think it did a lot to help him. I mean, it's not like we were ignoring him before that, it's just we made more of an effort to engage him in activities that HE liked. DH and I played a lot of video games WITH him at that time,. He would really loosen up after a while and would actually seem happy. I really do think spending time with him doing things he really liked made a difference. He also had no friends at all then (we had just moved) so it was really necessary for us to help fill that as much as possible. ST, it ISN'T your fault and he WILL get better. My Alex is a bit on the more sensitive side, and he also tends to be very hard on himself (OMG he is SO much like me). This is NOT your fault. he is lucky to have parents who are concerned enough to do all of this for him. I got some HORRIBLE advice when we were going through this (some of it from a YAAPSter or two) that we should be MORE punitive and take away privileges because of the behaviour, but I could NOT do it. I knew it would push him over the edge. I *knew* the behaviour was a side effect of a much deeper problem. The last last thing my son needed was for me to crack the hell down on him at his LOWEST moment of his life. :-( I'm glad I did NOT listen to that advice and that I followed my heart. Because, not to be corny, but he IS my heart. I wanted to HELP him, not punish him.

I think you are doing a fabulous job and he is so lucky that you are his mother. :grouphug:

[Sensitive Topic]

Thanks everyone for your input. I have a lot to think about and consider. Mainly I feel it could be allergies or food sensitivities due to reading the book "Is This Your Child?" but also there isn't anything really stressful going on in our lives that we could attribute this change to. Also, a lot of his emotional events seem to happen when he hasn't eaten for a while or if he eats, 20-30 minutes after. Maybe a hypoglycemia thing. He does have a super fast metabolism.

My neighbor told me she has her son who is very intense and always had emotional issues, in play therapy, so I might talk to her again and possibly see about getting a referral or more info about who her son is seeing.

Ds had another huge tantrum today due to us not being able to read his mind about where he wanted to sit at the dinner table. I spent a lot of time with him after that, we watched a movie together and read next to each other in his bed tonight too.

I am trying to talk to him about ways to deal with things in non-emotional moments. I have read parts of Playful Parenting a few times and will add it to my personal library later this month. I'm also wanting to get the Raising Your Spirited Child workbook which I saw mentioned here recently. I want to get him outside more as I suspect there could be an SAD component to this as well. Hopefully the weather will cooperate more and more over the next few weeks.

Oh and yes, he is totally a perfectionist and is quite bright (if I do say so) and yet is beating himself up daily about being stupid. Sadly, my younger boy is starting to show some perfectionist tendencies as well but overall has a much different temperament than the older one.

I'm sorry if I haven't responded to all the points but I need to turn the computer off and pay some attention to my dh tonight. I will go through this and make a book list in the morning. And see if there's anything that I missed replying to. I do appreciate everyone's thoughts and support. I'm so sad and I want this to get better soon.