Please talk me down before I have to call this mom!

[Sue]

It's parents like this who make me want to quit girl scouts!

Because the girls worked so hard on the Fall Product Sale we are going Bowling. They will get a Try-it and Fun. 7 weeks ago the girls voted for this at our meeting. The next meeting (about 5 weeks ago) I told parents, and I told them their permission slips and deposits were due the next meeting (3 weeks ago) because 2 weeks ago I had to turn in paperwork to Council and give the bowling place my final number. 15 days ago I saw a Mom at school (a week after the stuff was due!) and she asked me if it was too late. I told her no, because I had to turn in the paperwork the next day. TODAY (the day before bowling, 3 weeks after the stuff was due to me, 2 weeks after the stuff was due to council) I get a phone call on my machine asking if it's too late! Grrrrrrrrrr....... I have to tell her "yes, it is too late, sorry your DD can't come because you couldn't fill out a permission slip and give me $5 (and I *really* didn't even need the $5 , I would have fronted that!) in 5 freakin' weeks!"

I had a Mom drop off ther DDs permission slip to my house because her DH forgot to bring it to the meeting. I had a Mom come to a meeting her DD wasn't at to make sure she got her paperwork in on time! I gave this other mom 2 more weeks! The day before I mean come on!

Ya know, it is really frustrating because at the beginning of the year Elizabeth (and some other girls)was a maniac at GS wouldn't listen ran around. And I told her in the car I was not going to run a troop where the girls wouldn't listen. She stopped acting like a maniac and the other girls followed suit. Now it's a handful of parents "acting up"

When I say the meeting starts at x time. DON'T be surprised to see the meeting already started when you strolled in 15 mins late. When I say it ends at X time, please come get your daughter. STOP what you are doing an make it a priority! My co-leader has to drive 1.5 hours home after a school night evening meeting!

To say I am frustrated right now, puts it mildly!

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.

[Jessica]

Take the hugs and ignore the rest if you aren't looking for ideas/advice.

As a Cub Scout den leader for 5 years, I understand this plight all too well. If it were me, I would call the mom and explain that you had to have the paperwork turned in over two weeks ago and trhe deadline was really a week before that. I would also tell her that due to council rules and whatnot you can not include the girl on your field trip for various insurance and liability reasons. I would then offer that the mom(or dad) could bring the girl to bowl alongside the troop, but not as a badge earning activity(since she is not registered to do so). I would stress that the parent needs to stay with the child and that the child can of course participate with her friends in games and snocks(if there are any), but that she will not be doing so a part of a troop activity. This way the girl still gets to have fun and go bowling even if her mom flaked a little. I've been the flakey mom once or twice in my day and it sucks if the kid pays the price for that.

(((Sue)))

[Sue]

Do you have any suggestions for how I can tell her not to bring her 2 year old? I really feel if he is there, she won't be able to watch her DD. And the two year old may end up getting hurt (did I mention he is so typically two, LOL!)

I would stress that the parent needs to stay with the child and that the child can of course participate with her friends in games and snocks(if there are any), but that she will not be doing so a part of a troop activity. This way the girl still gets to have fun and go bowling even if her mom flaked a little. I've been the flakey mom once or twice in my day and it sucks if the kid pays the price for that.

(((Sue)))

[gfrach]

Hugs, Sue!!! I so hear you on this!!! There are just always those kind of people and boy they annoy the crap out of me, too.

(Side story to illustrate this--I arranged a field trip in January and then had to delay it a week because C was sick. One mom had rsvp'd just for one of her kids to come because she and the other kid had something planned for the original time. She called me late afternoon the day before the rescheduled field trip to ask if she could come. I said we were already at the limit that the facility had told me we could have. She actually asked me if I would call the facility and ask if I could bring 2 more people. I said no. There was no way I was going to call at 4 pm the day before 10 am field trip and ask for special favors, esp as we had already had to reschedule the field trip anyway!)

There are just always those people. Sigh. The ones who are late, the ones who are late to pick up, the ones who want special privileges for their kids, etc. I've learned in arranging homeschool stuff that I have to be very upfront about my expectations and then still expect that some people will not follow them anyway, but it does seem to help to be very explicit upfront. (And when they make me crazy I just keep repeating to myself that I'm doing this for C not for myself.)

Hugs!

[lunita]

Honestly, I'm probably this mom. I'm horrible at getting things in on time.

If you told me my daughter could only come tomorrow if I attended and left the two year old at home, the chances are that I would tell you never mind, I couldn't arrange for that tomorrow. And then your problem is over. And if I DID arrange for childcare for the two year old so that I could go with my eldest? Chances are someone ELSE would bring a younger and I'd end up feeling pissed that I had gone out of my way to figure out babysitting while the other child got to stay with his/her mom.

[lunita]

Do you have any suggestions for how I can tell her not to bring her 2 year old? I really feel if he is there, she won't be able to watch her DD. And the two year old may end up getting hurt (did I mention he is so typically two, LOL!)

Wait, but wouldn't the mom just need to be present on the premises for legality/liability reasons? Would she really have to have full responsibility for watching the girl rather than letting her daughter join in and participate with the group? I haven't been bowling for a long time, but I can't imagine it is that unusual for a two year old to hang out with his parents while the family bowls? I probably would feel put off by the suggestion that my younger sibling couldn't come under those circumstances.

AND... I'm projecting. I turned in another field trip form late today and I'm feeling like a loser about it. I can't figure why I can't manage to turn the darn things in on time. This is a habitual and embarrassing trait of mine.

[Sue]

Chances are someone ELSE would bring a younger and I'd end up feeling pissed that I had gone out of my way to figure out babysitting while the other child got to stay with his/her mom.

..

[Bickery]

Wait, but wouldn't the mom just need to be present on the premises for legality/liability reasons? Would she really have to have full responsibility for watching the girl rather than letting her daughter join in and participate with the group? I haven't been bowling for a long time, but I can't imagine it is that unusual for a two year old to hang out with his parents while the family bowls? I probably would feel put off by the suggestion that my younger sibling couldn't come under those circumstances.

AND... I'm projecting. I turned in another field trip form late today and I'm feeling like a loser about it. I can't figure why I can't manage to turn the darn things in on time. This is a habitual and embarrassing trait of mine.

Kristy, I usually fill the damned thing out and hand it in the minute I get it or I won't remember to return it. We get a monthly form and I just fill it out and leave it on the OM's desk before we ever leave school for the day.

[sarahs]

Oh yea, I get it. Its the parents who make me crazy, not my kids. But I am a terrible, terrible, terrible paperwork person myself. And I am always running late. So I have tons of empathy for the parents.

Honestly, the way I have dealt with it is to get looser and looser. I cut everybody, including myself, lots and lots of slack. It just makes things so much less stressful for me. But I don't have to turn any paperwork into council for field trips. I would be screwed if that were the case. I just do my thing. Hell, I registered my troop really, really, really late. They cut me a lot of slack though because I am also the service unit manager and have been a leader for 6 years. What are they going to do, fire me?:p

Anyway, it may not work for you but if you can loosen up and and lower the expectations it may be easier on you. Easier said than done though, I know! I still get pissed at the same parents over and over who don't bother to tell me if they are coming or not and always pick up their kids late. Even though I know it could just as easily be me.

[lunita]

Oh, and I never seem to have the necessary insurance information with me. I tend to not carry my wallet in when I drop off kids (I know, bad... one of these days someone is going to break into my car), and I don't have the doctor's phone number in my wallet when I *do* have that with me. We have at least one field trip per kid every month, often more, and each and every form asks for insurance info and doctor phone numbers, so I should really just get that onto a card in my wallet (did I mention that I don't carry a purse, just this checkbook size wallet thing... and that I tend to lose whatever it is I'm carrying with me?):rolleyes:

[Sue]

There is a girl/adult ratio. She will push us over the ratio. If the mom counted as a "adult" to help us with the ratio, she could not have a sib. Add she would be responsible not only for her dd, but other girls as well. ETA: Technically she can't count as another "adult" because she didn't fill out the paperwork for a CORI check.

It's not like one of my girls birthday parties. You have to have all your ducks in a row, this includes getting parent volunteers (who are CORI checked) and all the paperwork to the GSs on time. It's not my rules, it's the girl scouts.

I do want to add it is a lot of work for me to get this feild trip together, on top of running meeting and doing all the stuff need to do so my girls can participate. I hope you see this is were my frustration is. I spend many hours a we VOLUNTEERING for girl scouts and having my girls participate.



Wait, but wouldn't the mom just need to be present on the premises for legality/liability reasons? Would she really have to have full responsibility for watching the girl rather than letting her daughter join in and participate with the group? I haven't been bowling for a long time, but I can't imagine it is that unusual for a two year old to hang out with his parents while the family bowls? I probably would feel put off by the suggestion that my younger sibling couldn't come under those circumstances.

AND... I'm projecting. I turned in another field trip form late today and I'm feeling like a loser about it. I can't figure why I can't manage to turn the darn things in on time. This is a habitual and embarrassing trait of mine.

[Sue]

...
Anyway, it may not work for you but if you can loosen up and and lower the expectations it may be easier on you. Easier said than done though, I know! I still get pissed at the same parents over and over who don't bother to tell me if they are coming or not and always pick up their kids late. Even though I know it could just as easily be me.

[Bickery]

Oh, and I never seem to have the necessary insurance information with me. I tend to not carry my wallet in when I drop off kids (I know, bad... one of these days someone is going to break into my car), and I don't have the doctor's phone number in my wallet when I *do* have that with me. We have at least one field trip per kid every month, often more, and each and every form asks for insurance info and doctor phone numbers, so I should really just get that onto a card in my wallet (did I mention that I don't carry a purse, just this checkbook size wallet thing... and that I tend to lose whatever it is I'm carrying with me?):rolleyes:

I say that I have something plugged into every port already and I can't add anything else that requires memory. There's just a limit and in order to pick something new up, I need to drop something first.

[Sue]

and it takes all the little peices to get things done. When someone tells me (with several reminders and extentions on deadline) that they couldn't fill out a TINY piece of paper work (were talking name, emergency phone and a signature) because they are too busy, it makes me wonder what the frick they think *I* do all day!


Hugs, Sue!!! I so hear you on this!!! There are just always those kind of people and boy they annoy the crap out of me, too.

(Side story to illustrate this--I arranged a field trip in January and then had to delay it a week because C was sick. One mom had rsvp'd just for one of her kids to come because she and the other kid had something planned for the original time. She called me late afternoon the day before the rescheduled field trip to ask if she could come. I said we were already at the limit that the facility had told me we could have. She actually asked me if I would call the facility and ask if I could bring 2 more people. I said no. There was no way I was going to call at 4 pm the day before 10 am field trip and ask for special favors, esp as we had already had to reschedule the field trip anyway!)

There are just always those people. Sigh. The ones who are late, the ones who are late to pick up, the ones who want special privileges for their kids, etc. I've learned in arranging homeschool stuff that I have to be very upfront about my expectations and then still expect that some people will not follow them anyway, but it does seem to help to be very explicit upfront. (And when they make me crazy I just keep repeating to myself that I'm doing this for C not for myself.)

Hugs!

[Sue]

BUT she would have to stay.

It was funny because she said "Oh we haven't had a meeting in a long time." But we have had them. She just never goes.

She also asked me how she could get her cookies. Every other mom picked up their cookies, made arrangements for someone else to pick up their cookies, or called the cookie mom ahead of time to make other arrangements. Sigh, 2 days after she was supposed to get them, she is making arrangements.

Maybe I am just jealous because my former Daisy Co-leader has a brownie troop where the parents are actually *involved*. I have 3 I can count on.

[Jessica]

Do you have any suggestions for how I can tell her not to bring her 2 year old? I really feel if he is there, she won't be able to watch her DD. And the two year old may end up getting hurt (did I mention he is so typically two, LOL!)

If it were me, I would call and extend the original idea that if her dd still wants to particpate, that you had found a way for her to be able to do so, but in order to be in compliance with the GS regulations regarding girl/adult ratios other siblings or friends would not be able to be accomodated. Then, I would light-heartedly say that her dd probably loves having her(mom) to herself(dd) every so often and that you are looking forward to it with your dd as well.

Good luck Sue! A big thank you from me for all the volunteer work that you do. Sometimes I forget how hard other parents work at organizing and facilitating these kinds of things for my kids(even though I do it to LOL) and I appreciate your work and influence!:grouphug:

[Brenda]

BUT she would have to stay.

It was funny because she said "Oh we haven't had a meeting in a long time." But we have had them. She just never goes.

She also asked me how she could get her cookies. Every other mom picked up their cookies, made arrangements for someone else to pick up their cookies, or called the cookie mom ahead of time to make other arrangements. Sigh, 2 days after she was supposed to get them, she is making arrangements.

Maybe I am just jealous because my former Daisy Co-leader has a brownie troop where the parents are actually *involved*. I have 3 I can count on.

I feel like a sucky GS mom sometimes because I am not involved with either girl's troop. But I made the decision a long time ago that if they are going to be in GS, this is what I had to do. With everything else on my plate, I cannot be involved in their scouting experience to do anything more than pick up/drop off and visit a little. Between homeschooling, coordinating the HS group, work, the arts project board of directors, the other activities we are in, gardening, the housework, general life with four kids and everything else I have taken on, it cannot be done.

There is no point to this really. It must be hard to for you to have parents that aren't involved. There is so much to do as a GS leader! I feel bad when I talk with my daughters' leaders. They would love more parental involvement, but I am upfront with them about why it will never be me.

[Sue]

and hopefully they *do* have some people to help. it **IS** a lot of work.

I feel like a sucky GS mom sometimes because I am not involved with either girl's troop. But I made the decision a long time ago that if they are going to be in GS, this is what I had to do. With everything else on my plate, I cannot be involved in their scouting experience to do anything more than pick up/drop off and visit a little. Between homeschooling, coordinating the HS group, work, the arts project board of directors, the other activities we are in, gardening, the housework, general life with four kids and everything else I have taken on, it cannot be done.

There is no point to this really. It must be hard to for you to have parents that aren't involved. There is so much to do as a GS leader! I feel bad when I talk with my daughters' leaders. They would love more parental involvement, but I am upfront with them about why it will never be me.

[Purple]

Oh, and I never seem to have the necessary insurance information with me. I tend to not carry my wallet in when I drop off kids (I know, bad... one of these days someone is going to break into my car), and I don't have the doctor's phone number in my wallet when I *do* have that with me. We have at least one field trip per kid every month, often more, and each and every form asks for insurance info and doctor phone numbers, so I should really just get that onto a card in my wallet (did I mention that I don't carry a purse, just this checkbook size wallet thing... and that I tend to lose whatever it is I'm carrying with me?):rolleyes:


Do you carry your phone in? If so, program the doc's number in there and put the insurance info as a "memo".

[Purple]

Hugs to you Sue! I remember my mom saying almost similar things when she was my GS leader. John has been a coach for Little League a few times and it is such a hassle because of the parents!

I hope the bowling party is fun though!

[lunita]

Do you carry your phone in? If so, program the doc's number in there and put the insurance info as a "memo".

Phone (if I remember to charge it and take it with me at all!) is on the outside pocket of my big wallet. More often than not, it just isn't charged.

I'm one of the moms who makes people like Sue pull their hair out. I have lots of empathy for the mom in the scenario, and in my head I have a zillion excuses for her. Mostly, though, I just feel like a lame loser for not being able to cope with simple paperwork while people like Sue do so much to benefit me and my kids.

[renee]

It's parents like this who make me want to quit girl scouts!

Because the girls worked so hard on the Fall Product Sale we are going Bowling. They will get a Try-it and Fun. 7 weeks ago the girls voted for this at our meeting. The next meeting (about 5 weeks ago) I told parents, and I told them their permission slips and deposits were due the next meeting (3 weeks ago) because 2 weeks ago I had to turn in paperwork to Council and give the bowling place my final number. 15 days ago I saw a Mom at school (a week after the stuff was due!) and she asked me if it was too late. I told her no, because I had to turn in the paperwork the next day. TODAY (the day before bowling, 3 weeks after the stuff was due to me, 2 weeks after the stuff was due to council) I get a phone call on my machine asking if it's too late! Grrrrrrrrrr....... I have to tell her "yes, it is too late, sorry your DD can't come because you couldn't fill out a permission slip and give me $5 (and I *really* didn't even need the $5 , I would have fronted that!) in 5 freakin' weeks!"

I had a Mom drop off ther DDs permission slip to my house because her DH forgot to bring it to the meeting. I had a Mom come to a meeting her DD wasn't at to make sure she got her paperwork in on time! I gave this other mom 2 more weeks! The day before I mean come on!

Ya know, it is really frustrating because at the beginning of the year Elizabeth (and some other girls)was a maniac at GS wouldn't listen ran around. And I told her in the car I was not going to run a troop where the girls wouldn't listen. She stopped acting like a maniac and the other girls followed suit. Now it's a handful of parents "acting up"

When I say the meeting starts at x time. DON'T be surprised to see the meeting already started when you strolled in 15 mins late. When I say it ends at X time, please come get your daughter. STOP what you are doing an make it a priority! My co-leader has to drive 1.5 hours home after a school night evening meeting!

To say I am frustrated right now, puts it mildly!

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.


Sue, I typed up a long response and then deleted it because I don't want it out there attached to my name. I copied and pasted and I'm PM'ing you instead.

Suffice it to say I COMPLETELY understand. I think most parents have no idea how much work goes into running a troop (we have 21 girls so it's huge) and how hard it is when you don't get what you need in a timely manner.

[Purple]

Kristy I think you are too hard on yourself. You have three young children, you are in school, they are in school, not to mention all the cooking, housework, homework for you, homework help for them, sports, etc.

Seriously, I get disorganized and I don't have half as much to do! If my kids were in school I don't know what I'd do to try to keep up with lunches, parties, field trip forms, oh my! (You are in no way lame or a loser!!!)

[Bonny]

I've handed permission slips in waaay too late many times -- and it's always because I can get away with it. For the things/organizations that I know cannot be handed in late ... they're never late. I think that largely (myself included) people do what they can get away with.

{{hugs}} sounds like you've gotten some good advice here.

[mirage1]

I've handed permission slips in waaay too late many times -- and it's always because I can get away with it. For the things/organizations that I know cannot be handed in late ... they're never late. I think that largely (myself included) people do what they can get away with.

{{hugs}} sounds like you've gotten some good advice here.This is a really good point. It's absolutely NOT that I intentionally take advantage of a situation, but if, say, I found myself on my way to GS and didn't have the paperwork but knew that in the past it had worked out even if I turned it in late, I wouldn't go back. On the other hand if I knew it was going to ruin Cassie's opportunity to participate if I didn't bring it THAT VERY DAY, then without a doubt I'd drive 5 miles back home to pick it up.

This is a roundabout way, Sue, of telling you that it's okay, even good, to be a complete hardass about these things.

Heck, tell the girls they are responsible for getting their parents to turn the things in...maybe that would help.

[Sue]

Heck, tell the girls they are responsible for getting their parents to turn the things in...maybe that would help.

One of the thing *I Love* about girls scouts is it is supposed to teach the girls to be responsible and help them grow up. Over time more and more responsibility gets handed over to girls, and leaders and parents just take on a supervisory role. By the time they are in HS the GIRLS run the meeting, plan the trip, figure out how to finance them..... It's really cool to see the girls mature that way.

And this is how I intend to teach my girls. The parents know it because I wrote a newsletter at the beginning of the year that and girls scouts teach girls how to be woman.

Now the BUT, LOL! we have mostly 1st graders. The 3rd graders (we have two, one is Elizabeth) are *very* responsible (probably more than most 3rd graders actually) and I can expect a lot from them. The one that isn't my DD, lol, will communicate with her mom, remember what needs to be done and deadline, and get them done. I hope that by the time the rest of the girls are 3rd grades we can have that shift. If i make it that long.

Truthfully, because I am burnt out, and have to bust my ass to get *everything* done (except cookies thank g-d because if I was the cookie mom I would LOSE it.) the only thing keeping me in girls scouts is 3 of the girls are related to me and I don't want them to have no troop.

Maybe next year when I don't have other HUGE voluntary commitments I will feel better. And I won't want to run away!

[ADDled]

I do know how much you do and how burnt out you are and how underappreciated you are.

However.

It is also hard for me to project in threads like this one, and Rachel's letter several weeks ago about the homeschool field trip.

I'm that person. I don't want to be (nobody wants to be). But I'm the one that somehow didn't receive the email/remember to read the newsletter/forgot the permission slip AGAIN. That's going on right now with me with Jody's violin group - I don't WANT to be the clueless mom, but honestly, I didn't find out about a recital last weekend until a week before! And I was supposed to accompany Jody's recital piece, so I had to figure out what to do with Sawyer in one week. And it was nobody's fault - I somehow missed an email, and I had the newsletter put back to read "when I had a minute."

And when I read posts like this, it does sting because it feels like there are other moms out there talking about me like this. Assigning motive. Assuming that my behavior is because I don't know how hard the other mom works, or don't care, or am selfish, or whatever. It doesn't feel good. And yes, this is projecting. But that's why I don't usually reply to posts like this. (I'm doing it this time to kind of let Kristy know she's not a loser, and she's not alone :))

[Holly]

I do know how much you do and how burnt out you are and how underappreciated you are.

However.

It is also hard for me to project in threads like this one, and Rachel's letter several weeks ago about the homeschool field trip.



It just isn't you and Kristy. Believe me. I'm right there in the mix as well; just add working outside the home full time. With everything I have going on at work, trying to remember my dh's crazy schedule, and the schedules of two kids, I'm not sure which way is up half the time. I'm dreading this spring/summer where I'm going to be very busy with work obligations, Bella is playing tball and Evan's first season of select baseball (he is going from 15 games last year to 30+ games this season) begins.

Last night, we were going to dinner. I told Greg I had money and I would pay. We took 2 cars because Evan had a baseball camp last night, which Greg was taking him to after dinner. We pull up and I realize I forgot my purse. I have no money. Luckily, Greg had enough cash in his wallet to take care of dinner so I didn't have to run home to retrieve my purse. This happens more than I care to admit.

There are no ulterior motives going on.

[Sue]

This situation is completely different. There was no miscommunication. We are talking Name, signature and emergency contact information., that's it! 3 lines to fill out on a permission slip, with several deadlines, several discussions and several reminders.

I didn't post to make you or anyone else feel bad. But I am frustrated. I spent HOURS working on this (between finding several options to present to the girls meeting with the girls to vote on a place, figuring out how to tie in a try-it, letting parents know, getting all the paperwork from parents, taking care of getting paperwork with the town (emailing, dropping stuff off), booking the place, not to mention all the TRAINING I have to do and PAY for out of my pocket, just so the girls can be left with me) She need to spend 3 second and make a commitment -- that's IT. I am not upset, BTW, that she didn't do it. I am upset that she left *me* to figure out what to do about it, because I feel bad for her DD.

I appreciate your hugs, and I am sorry if I made you feel bad. I feel pretty bad myself. And now I feel bad for spreading negativity. Freaking universe, put negatively out there and it spreads, but how the heck do you get something like this off your chest? :rolleyes:



I do know how much you do and how burnt out you are and how underappreciated you are.

However.

It is also hard for me to project in threads like this one, and Rachel's letter several weeks ago about the homeschool field trip.

I'm that person. I don't want to be (nobody wants to be). But I'm the one that somehow didn't receive the email/remember to read the newsletter/forgot the permission slip AGAIN. That's going on right now with me with Jody's violin group - I don't WANT to be the clueless mom, but honestly, I didn't find out about a recital last weekend until a week before! And I was supposed to accompany Jody's recital piece, so I had to figure out what to do with Sawyer in one week. And it was nobody's fault - I somehow missed an email, and I had the newsletter put back to read "when I had a minute."

And when I read posts like this, it does sting because it feels like there are other moms out there talking about me like this. Assigning motive. Assuming that my behavior is because I don't know how hard the other mom works, or don't care, or am selfish, or whatever. It doesn't feel good. And yes, this is projecting. But that's why I don't usually reply to posts like this. (I'm doing it this time to kind of let Kristy know she's not a loser, and she's not alone :))

[Sue]

And I do understand this Mom has A LOT on her plate. I know her current situation. But I am upset with her because she seems to have blinders on because she is so busy, how her actions affect other people. It was 3 lines on a piece of paper, she could have done it right then and there -- when I handed it too her. And if she is sooooo busy that she couldn't do that tiny thing then how can she make time to bring her bowling. My life is crazy right now too. And these last minute things KILL me, because I have to schedule everything to the nth degree, or *I* start dropping the ball. And if I do that at this point, I'm screwed.


On a lighter note, do you have a PDA? they are cheap, sync up to your home computer and easy to use. I live and die by my PDA. I put everything in my calender, even tiny stuff like "Pick up soda for teacher appreciation" Because without it I would be lost.

Next year my commitments with ease up dramatically. So maybe I will mellow out a bit. But stuff keeps me up at night, and I am not the type of person that stays up all night thinking about things. But I don't want to let anyone down ESPECIALLY kids, and things like this set me up to fail.



Phone (if I remember to charge it and take it with me at all!) is on the outside pocket of my big wallet. More often than not, it just isn't charged.

I'm one of the moms who makes people like Sue pull their hair out. I have lots of empathy for the mom in the scenario, and in my head I have a zillion excuses for her. Mostly, though, I just feel like a lame loser for not being able to cope with simple paperwork while people like Sue do so much to benefit me and my kids.

[Sue]

I do think she can't appreciate how much work I did. And she was flip about her letting her DD down and putting in in my lap to fix it.

I am not perfect, but if I make a mistake or forget something or drop the ball, *I* deal with the fall out.

I have forgotten to RSVP to birthday parties, and I have had to comfort a crying child because of a mistake *I* made. But there is no one in the world I would expect the parent to fix what *I* did. The natural consequence for me dropping the ball is letting my dd down. The parent running the party didn't do it *I* did. I also learn to be MUCH more careful about it because *I* dont' want to let *MY* child down.



There are no ulterior motives going on.

[Sherri]

I know you've already dealt with the situation. I am organizationally challenged myself (though a better communicator, I would probably have called you after forgetting to bring the permission slip twice, LOL).

In general, I think it might be helpful for you and the co-leader to try to focus on communicating (in person, because some of these parents either don't read letters/newsletters or forget what they read) what you need and why. If they don't follow through, make sure you explain consequences in a problem solving way (i.e., based on forms received we recruited x adults to come without other children in the family. In order to add one now, a parent would have to come along without other children), that way it makes it clear what your reasons are so she can't think you are applying some arbitrary requirement to "punish" her for being late.

With late pickups, I assume that two adults have to stay until all children are picked up. You could consider having a policy that anyone over ten minutes late will have to stay through the meeting on a future week so that your coleader can leave if any parent is late. It may also raise awareness of the fact that your coleader has such a long commute and how frustrating it can be to sit around waiting for parents to take care of their kids. Honestly, if lots of parents are late picker-uppers, they will come 20 minutes late and see that they aren't last and think "oh, so they didn't have to stick around later because of _me_, they still had to wait for X."

I'm sorry this experience is so frustrating for you!

Sherri

[Sue]

:rolleyes: And as I was talking to a mom (one that came to a meeting with out her DD so she could get her permission slip in on time) She asked when were were going to reschedule, I told her I don't know, I need to start over. She said "Oh I didn't know how much work it was. Be happy it's not like the Boy Scouts because parents have to stay for those." I need to ROFL about this. Because it would be EASIER for me if all the parents had to stay. :wackybounce: :wackybounce: :wackybounce: :wackybounce:

That's it am going to talk the power yoga class so i can Ummmm, Ummmm,


This Mom (who called yesterday) did ask if she would have a chance to do it the right way and have her DD officially join the group. Fortunately for her I have to start all over again, so yes. Now lets see what happens.

[Sue]

and at least twice in the conversations we specifically talked about this.

The newsletter is on top of contact, and talking with them before and after the meeting. I really do not have the time during the week to do much more than that. I am doing my part. Today i had to call parents to let them know we were rescheduling the field trip it took and hour and a half! Which is fine because it is Saturday, and I would have spent that time on bowling. But there are *too many* days I leave my house at 7:30 in the morning and am not home until 7:00 at night. And by the time I feed the kids and get them in bed it's 9:00 pm. I can't call parents at 9. And some of them get offended if I don't call back right away or I respond in an email. Even AFTER I told them I am just now getting a chance to respond. It's like they expect their needs to be my #1 priority.

BUT I will take what you said under advisement, because in the end it may help me deal with things better. I have to say one of the difficult things for me is I am a very SHY person. And I am not an extrovert. So while I do communicate in person, it takes a lot out of me.

There is only a couple late picker-uppers. I will talk to them next time, and let them know that my co-leader has to drive far away.



I know you've already dealt with the situation. I am organizationally challenged myself (though a better communicator, I would probably have called you after forgetting to bring the permission slip twice, LOL).

In general, I think it might be helpful for you and the co-leader to try to focus on communicating (in person, because some of these parents either don't read letters/newsletters or forget what they read) what you need and why. If they don't follow through, make sure you explain consequences in a problem solving way (i.e., based on forms received we recruited x adults to come without other children in the family. In order to add one now, a parent would have to come along without other children), that way it makes it clear what your reasons are so she can't think you are applying some arbitrary requirement to "punish" her for being late.

With late pickups, I assume that two adults have to stay until all children are picked up. You could consider having a policy that anyone over ten minutes late will have to stay through the meeting on a future week so that your coleader can leave if any parent is late. It may also raise awareness of the fact that your coleader has such a long commute and how frustrating it can be to sit around waiting for parents to take care of their kids. Honestly, if lots of parents are late picker-uppers, they will come 20 minutes late and see that they aren't last and think "oh, so they didn't have to stick around later because of _me_, they still had to wait for X."

I'm sorry this experience is so frustrating for you!

Sherri

[Sue]

But i needed to get it off my chest. I was just going to call the Mom and say "Sorry, I turned in all the paperwork to council weeks ago. Because I don't have her in my numbers she can't go."

But because I posted I got a way to involve her I was able to let her come. So in the end (if we didn't get the storm) it worked out.

I PMed you back. And THANKS for replying.


Sue, I typed up a long response and then deleted it because I don't want it out there attached to my name. I copied and pasted and I'm PM'ing you instead.

Suffice it to say I COMPLETELY understand. I think most parents have no idea how much work goes into running a troop (we have 21 girls so it's huge) and how hard it is when you don't get what you need in a timely manner.

[renee]

This situation is completely different. There was no miscommunication. We are talking Name, signature and emergency contact information., that's it! 3 lines to fill out on a permission slip, with several deadlines, several discussions and several reminders.

I didn't post to make you or anyone else feel bad. But I am frustrated. I spent HOURS working on this (between finding several options to present to the girls meeting with the girls to vote on a place, figuring out how to tie in a try-it, letting parents know, getting all the paperwork from parents, taking care of getting paperwork with the town (emailing, dropping stuff off), booking the place, not to mention all the TRAINING I have to do and PAY for out of my pocket, just so the girls can be left with me) She need to spend 3 second and make a commitment -- that's IT. I am not upset, BTW, that she didn't do it. I am upset that she left *me* to figure out what to do about it, because I feel bad for her DD.

I appreciate your hugs, and I am sorry if I made you feel bad. I feel pretty bad myself. And now I feel bad for spreading negativity. Freaking universe, put negatively out there and it spreads, but how the heck do you get something like this off your chest? :rolleyes:

I understand that parents turn things in late because they've done it in the past and it seemed like it wasn't a problem.

I've let things slide in the past if I'm able to (sometimes you just can't because of Council). It creates more work for me, but I just have a hard time saying no because I don't want to disappoint the child. And I do think parents sometimes think, "well it was okay to turn it in late last time, so it should be ok this time".

It's just very frustrating when you spend hours planning, organizing and working on this and then you wind up with more work, whether it's finding another chaperone because you're over the adult/girl ratio, or refaxing the trip roster to council, or having to make a trip back up to council to pick up another patch because you've already purchased them based on your responses.

It's probably my fault for not speaking up and being willing to say no, but like I said, I have a hard time saying no to a child because I didn't get what I need on time from their parents.

So I understand. I also want to scream when I do get the permission slips and they sign and date it, but don't include the emergency contact number. It may not seem like a big deal, but I have to have that. Council requires it and then I either have to make a phone call, send an e-mail or go tracking it down somehow.

I really try to make it as easy as possible on the parents. I think I over-communicate. We use every means of communication available to us, with written reminders, phone calls, and it's still so difficult.

I'm getting very frustrated because I've always felt like there wasn't much appreciation for the time and commitment it takes to do this and I'm really feeling it now.

[ADDled]

...
I know you need to vent, and I don't fault you for it.

There is a disconnect, though. You think she doesn't know how hard you work (and maybe it's true, but maybe it's not). You think it's not hard for someone to put three lines on a permission slip (and I'm here to tell you, hon, it IS hard. It involves checking a calendar, maybe checking with other family members, not losing the slip, REMEMBERING to do all that, and someone who has it all together like you (I SO admire you and wish I could be organized like you are) can't get that it's just hard or even impossible.

I wouldn't have made it through grad school without my dear friend Robert who was organized and on top of things, and would meet me outside the classroom where he smoked his cigarrette before going inside every morning with a question like "have you started to apply for graduation?" or "did you see that the deadline for the term paper changed?" or whatever. And even though there were notices all over, and there had been verbal announcements, and etc. etc., I had MISSED it and I'd be like "what? apply for graduation? what does that mean?"

And instead of assigning motives to me, he just understood (better than I did at the time, I suspect) that I had a terrible time staying on top of things.

And the comments about "have you tried a PDA?" or "can you keep it in your cell phone?" or "put it in a paper in your wallet" remind me about the time that I told my midwife my plan for taking ADD meds and nursing around them, and she said "have you ever tried making lists?" It just shows a complete lack of understanding that people who don't have it all together don't WANT to be that way, don't WANT to let their kids down, and YES, have tried making lists, paper, PDA, every trick they can think of to NOT let their kids down, and yet often do anyway and feel like losers for it.

This gal could have been a complete jerk, I don't know. But because I've been in her situation and I'm not (usually) a complete jerk, I was projecting, and I'm sorry for that.

I think it's OK for you to vent. And this is the best place for that! But it might be unhelpful for YOU to be assigning motive to the mom that does thes things to you, you know? I mean, if you can figure out how to be frustrated with her ACTIONS without assuming that she just doesn't care and wants to lay the responsibility on you, you might feel better (this is about you, not her, because of course she can't hear you vent). I know if I assume positive intent and don't assume people are just not caring about my feelings, I feel better and it's easier to deal with people who make more work for me, etc.

You didn't hurt my feelings, and I wouldn't have even posted if I hadn't felt bad for other people who did post in the thread :D I would have just skimmed it and moved on. And I AM sorry you're dealing with this. It sounds like a tremendous amount of work for not a lot of thanks or appreciation, and that sucks no matter what the work is.

[Sue]

like she doesn't care about how much work I already put into for her daughter. Maybe she does get it.

This is where I will admit, I feel like I am like I am being disrespected, and like I am there to serve her. Probably not true. As a matter of fact typing it out it looks a little ridiculous. But this mom needs to get it together, because I just *CAN'T* pull it together for her. And I will not be put in the position of picking up the slack for her all the time. I have too much on my plate, and frankly I'm not that nice. :p LOL! Yeah, I am, and I will pick up the slack. And I will get super irritated, and I will vent, and I will get over it. LOL!

I need to let it go. I talked to her today, and I am sure she is going to have a great day. And I need to do that myself.

I know you need to vent, and I don't fault you for it.

There is a disconnect, though. You think she doesn't know how hard you work (and maybe it's true, but maybe it's not). You think it's not hard for someone to put three lines on a permission slip (and I'm here to tell you, hon, it IS hard. It involves checking a calendar, maybe checking with other family members, not losing the slip, REMEMBERING to do all that, and someone who has it all together like you (I SO admire you and wish I could be organized like you are) can't get that it's just hard or even impossible.

I wouldn't have made it through grad school without my dear friend Robert who was organized and on top of things, and would meet me outside the classroom where he smoked his cigarrette before going inside every morning with a question like "have you started to apply for graduation?" or "did you see that the deadline for the term paper changed?" or whatever. And even though there were notices all over, and there had been verbal announcements, and etc. etc., I had MISSED it and I'd be like "what? apply for graduation? what does that mean?"

And instead of assigning motives to me, he just understood (better than I did at the time, I suspect) that I had a terrible time staying on top of things.

And the comments about "have you tried a PDA?" or "can you keep it in your cell phone?" or "put it in a paper in your wallet" remind me about the time that I told my midwife my plan for taking ADD meds and nursing around them, and she said "have you ever tried making lists?" It just shows a complete lack of understanding that people who don't have it all together don't WANT to be that way, don't WANT to let their kids down, and YES, have tried making lists, paper, PDA, every trick they can think of to NOT let their kids down, and yet often do anyway and feel like losers for it.

This gal could have been a complete jerk, I don't know. But because I've been in her situation and I'm not (usually) a complete jerk, I was projecting, and I'm sorry for that.

I think it's OK for you to vent. And this is the best place for that! But it might be unhelpful for YOU to be assigning motive to the mom that does thes things to you, you know? I mean, if you can figure out how to be frustrated with her ACTIONS without assuming that she just doesn't care and wants to lay the responsibility on you, you might feel better (this is about you, not her, because of course she can't hear you vent). I know if I assume positive intent and don't assume people are just not caring about my feelings, I feel better and it's easier to deal with people who make more work for me, etc.

You didn't hurt my feelings, and I wouldn't have even posted if I hadn't felt bad for other people who did post in the thread :D I would have just skimmed it and moved on. And I AM sorry you're dealing with this. It sounds like a tremendous amount of work for not a lot of thanks or appreciation, and that sucks no matter what the work is.

[lunita]

And the comments about "have you tried a PDA?" or "can you keep it in your cell phone?" or "put it in a paper in your wallet" remind me about the time that I told my midwife my plan for taking ADD meds and nursing around them, and she said "have you ever tried making lists?" It just shows a complete lack of understanding that people who don't have it all together don't WANT to be that way, don't WANT to let their kids down, and YES, have tried making lists, paper, PDA, every trick they can think of to NOT let their kids down, and yet often do anyway and feel like losers for it.

.

I'm not diagnosed ADD, but I am probably at least mildly so (inattentive type). My PDA gets lost with everything else. I forget to charge it, to put the dates in it, to take it with me, to check it...

The Complete Idiot's Guide to Organizing Your Life is on my nightstand. Three or four other homekeeping and organizational books are nearby. Systems work for a very short time for me and then fall apart. It's not that I don't think being organized and responsible aren't important, its just that these things are very difficult for me.

Amanda didn't even sell cookies this year because I didn't get her permission slip in on time. That's how bad I am. Oh, she's actually going to do site sales today, but her vest is totally devoid of patches because I haven't gotten around to sewing on her try-its, and they are stashed in a dozen places around my house (too late to go sew them on now, we're getting dressed to go to the place as I type this).

[Sue]

they wanted their stuff early, I will put that on the calendar as June 7th, if it means making room for somethign that is really due on June 1st. But I have to **know** this is the case, like the coordinator told me.

I think I may actually hold a parent meeting to let people know in order for me to plan, I have firm (not flexible) times and deadlines. I *need* to be able to plan. Because if *I* drop the ball on any one of my obligations there is a ripple effect.



I've handed permission slips in waaay too late many times -- and it's always because I can get away with it. For the things/organizations that I know cannot be handed in late ... they're never late. I think that largely (myself included) people do what they can get away with.

{{hugs}} sounds like you've gotten some good advice here.

[anastasia]

:rolleyes: And as I was talking to a mom (one that came to a meeting with out her DD so she could get her permission slip in on time) She asked when were were going to reschedule, I told her I don't know, I need to start over. She said "Oh I didn't know how much work it was. Be happy it's not like the Boy Scouts because parents have to stay for those." I need to ROFL about this. Because it would be EASIER for me if all the parents had to stay. :wackybounce: :wackybounce: :wackybounce: :wackybounce:

That's it am going to talk the power yoga class so i can Ummmm, Ummmm,


This Mom (who called yesterday) did ask if she would have a chance to do it the right way and have her DD officially join the group. Fortunately for her I have to start all over again, so yes. Now lets see what happens.

I am just reading all this now so I am late with my reply but I'll throw it in anyway because I totally relate. The rescheduling is an opportunity for overwhelmed parents to get a second chance and for you to perhaps make a few adjustments.

I'm the class parent for Michael's kindy this year so I've had my share of coordinating, getting participation on a schedule, etc. I have the advantage of being able to stand outside the classroom door and catch parents on their way out—I have shoved printouts into their hands, stood in their way to hand them a pen and whatever it is I need them to sign, issued verbal reminders. Without that advantage I don't know how I'd manage, so I sympathize with you SO much. I'm also an introvert, I hate making phone calls, and I'm often just not available to contact people until after the kids are in bed. So I know the feeling.

Things that make my job easier:
1) The phone tree. This is a lifesaver for getting the word out without having to spend an hour making phone calls. It also gets the other parents involved in reminding each other of stuff and makes it feel like a group responsibility instead of all on you. LMK if you want more info—I always set up a phone tree with certain details that make a big difference in its efficacy.

2) The e-mail list. In every group there are a couple of holdouts who don't have e-mail or don't check it regularly, but the list is still overall a good way to send information, reminders, and thank-yous. For Michael's class I print out every e-mail I send and stick a copy into each parents' school mailbox; Nick's class has a mom who calls the holdouts whenever a class e-mail goes out.

Inserting crucial concept here: In the end it is the parent's responsibility to know what is going on. I do what I can to get the information out there, but once that's done, my part is over. If they don't read the printout, don't check their e-mail, don't listen to the phone message... it's on them. And when this is made clear to them up front, IME things go a lot better through the year.

OK... where was I... ah.

3) Showing empathy while maintaining emotional distance and sticking to firm limits—and placing those limits at the very farthest outer edge of where they need to be. We both know how overwhelmed parents are. I've experienced my child missing out on something because whatever I needed to do fell out through one of the holes in my head. I've been the one to ask if there's any possible way.... And I am a very deadline-oriented person. But when I set deadlines I have learned that I have to make them... not flexible, per se, but real.

Let me segue into an example of what I mean. Our school has an auction every year as a fundraiser. The auction coordinator sets deadlines for donations, RSVPs, etc. Donations actually have two deadlines—one for turning the form in with the description of the donation, one for delivering the actual donation. People miss both of these deadlines. Every year the coordinator has to slip in a couple of last-second item descriptions into the catalog just before sending it to the printer—which involves a quick phone call to me, the catalog editor, asking me to look them over. Every year, a few donations are actually delivered to the auction site on auction night, instead of being delivered to school by the deadline. Yes, that's late. Yes, it means that some people come away thinking the deadline doesn't really matter. But the donation gets there, it serves its purpose, and all is well in the end.

It's the "all is well in the end" concept that is difficult for us deadline-oriented people. It feels dismissive of the work and stress and worry we've gone through to get to that point, especially when people don't seem to understand how much work and stress and worry we've been through.

Another segue: Back in CA we used to have to drive 2 hours to visit my SIL, who always insisted we come to her instead of her coming to us even though we were the ones with babies. Anyway. One time it took us FIVE hours because of traffic and detours and, with 2 small children and a car whose AC went on strike in the 100-degree heat and having to make stops for food and nursing and diaper changes, it was utterly miserable. When we got there and conveyed the story to SIL, her response was a very cheerful "Well, you're here now!" I felt completely dismissed. It was NOT fine, it had been a horrible, stressful, hot, LONG drive and I wanted some freaking acknowledgment of what we had been though and that we had gone through it all for HER! :mouthfull...ring a bell?

Here's where I fail to have any light-bulb advice for you. Many years later, I have somehow, I'm not sure how, managed to make an inner shift that allows me to appreciate the end result even if I don't feel like those who enjoy that result understand what I went through to make it happen.

Going back to the auction example, I've learned from the coordinator that deadlines are important but they have to be real, and you have to stay unemotional about both accommodating people whenever possible (no matter what their reasons for needing accommodation!) AND shutting the door when factors beyond your control or requests outside your reasonable ability make it impossible to accommodate them.

This is how I stay sane. I'm on their side until I can't be anymore. I remind, I nudge, I facilitate as much as I can... I help people get what they want even if they're late or forgetful or procrastinating or seem to expect the world... I holler to let people know the door is closing, and why it's closing!... but once it's closed, it's closed, and I move on both logistically and emotionally.

That's all ideally, of course. You bet I have moments of frustration and "they had 3 weeks! Why couldn't they blah blah blah..." and wishing I could make people see everything that went into this when it must seem to them that it's easy as pie. But that's the part that will drive me nuts, so if I can find that place inside that allows me to shift over into the appreciation of the end result, life is easier.

It helps if there's at least one other person to commiserate with—a co-leader. Someone to stand with you at the event to smile knowingly at each other, proud of your achievement and just a *little* bit :ohno: at all the happy clueless people enjoying the fruits of your labor. :p

So, in a nutshell, my advice is:
Set expectations up front.
Set up a system for putting out info and reminders.
Be on their side until you can't be anymore.
Put it all behind you and enjoy the end result.

It has taken me 2 hours to put this together and I have been interrupted MANY times so I hope it makes sense. I also hope it comes across as completely sympathetic to you, knowing how you feel, supporting you, with empathy for the other parents as well but mainly in support of you.

[ADDled]

Inserting crucial concept here: In the end it is the parent's responsibility to know what is going on. I do what I can to get the information out there, but once that's done, my part is over. If they don't read the printout, don't check their e-mail, don't listen to the phone message... it's on them. And when this is made clear to them up front, IME things go a lot better through the year.



This is a very nice post, Tasia. There is a lot of really practical advice that I'll probably be using in my various coordinator responsibilities.

I especially like the part I quoted above, where you do all you can to get the word out, and then you let go.

It is ultimately up to me to read the Suzuki newsletter, for example. And if I don't. . .well, it's not the fault of the coordinator if I don't know about the upcoming recital!

Now if I get myself into a jam, I usually WILL ask for extra accommodation. I feel like, what's the harm in asking? But my preference would be that people would either say NO, it's not possible, or if they say YES, do so without bitching about me behind my back, or assuming I don't know how much work they do, you know?

There was a post recently about someone asking if they could take a younger sibling on a field trip. I TOTALLY ask that all the time! And to be honest, we can't go if we can't bring Jaden and Sawyer! So why would I not ask? If the answer is no, fine. Really, fine. But I'm not an ogre for asking, you know? If I missed a deadline, I'm going to ask for an exception. I think it's reasonable to say "yes" or "no" when someone asks for an exception without making it all about how they don't appreciate you etc. Not always easy (I can't say I've always been good at detaching emotionally from things like that) but really worth it mental-health wise, I think.

[lunita]

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[Sue]

I *think* I did everything you said EXCEPT the part about not being emotional when I have to say no. Part of that is because I BUSTED MY BUTT to make this happen for her (everything short of showing up at her door with the pen and permission slip.) So I am wrongfully (I know) insulted. But the bigger part of it is because I know I am not saying "no" to her. I am saying no to her DD.

With adults I do it ALL the time. My *gift* is to be able to play a scenario out 100 ways in my head, come up with contingency plans, and evaluate the worst case scenario if someone drops the ball. If I can't deal with the worst case (because it has a ripple effect on too many people) I will step in and make it happen. If I can deal with the worst case (like something doesn't get done) I let it happen and with adults I can basically say "I am sorry, you had all of the opportunities to get it done, it didn't happen." But when someone drops the ball and makes me say no to a kid I get emotional. I can't help it.

I can get over the insulted part, because I know I am just being irrational. But I don't know if I will ever get over the saying no to a kid part. I can't stop imagining this conversation -- "Oh sweetie I called to see if you could go. But Miss Sue said no. Sorry."

I had a parent drop the ball on something. And once I removed any effect it might have on the kids, I just told her no. Heck yeah, I was irritated that she called and asked for somethign in January that I already gave he in September. But I got over it. And there were not disappointed kids.

Anyway, I think I am going to print out your wonderful post as a reminder and reality check.

Thanks Tasia!!!





I am just reading all this now so I am late with my reply but I'll throw it in anyway because I totally relate. The rescheduling is an opportunity for overwhelmed parents to get a second chance and for you to perhaps make a few adjustments.

I'm the class parent for Michael's kindy this year so I've had my share of coordinating, getting participation on a schedule, etc. I have the advantage of being able to stand outside the classroom door and catch parents on their way out—I have shoved printouts into their hands, stood in their way to hand them a pen and whatever it is I need them to sign, issued verbal reminders. Without that advantage I don't know how I'd manage, so I sympathize with you SO much. I'm also an introvert, I hate making phone calls, and I'm often just not available to contact people until after the kids are in bed. So I know the feeling.

Things that make my job easier:
1) The phone tree. This is a lifesaver for getting the word out without having to spend an hour making phone calls. It also gets the other parents involved in reminding each other of stuff and makes it feel like a group responsibility instead of all on you. LMK if you want more info—I always set up a phone tree with certain details that make a big difference in its efficacy.

2) The e-mail list. In every group there are a couple of holdouts who don't have e-mail or don't check it regularly, but the list is still overall a good way to send information, reminders, and thank-yous. For Michael's class I print out every e-mail I send and stick a copy into each parents' school mailbox; Nick's class has a mom who calls the holdouts whenever a class e-mail goes out.

Inserting crucial concept here: In the end it is the parent's responsibility to know what is going on. I do what I can to get the information out there, but once that's done, my part is over. If they don't read the printout, don't check their e-mail, don't listen to the phone message... it's on them. And when this is made clear to them up front, IME things go a lot better through the year.

OK... where was I... ah.

3) Showing empathy while maintaining emotional distance and sticking to firm limits—and placing those limits at the very farthest outer edge of where they need to be. We both know how overwhelmed parents are. I've experienced my child missing out on something because whatever I needed to do fell out through one of the holes in my head. I've been the one to ask if there's any possible way.... And I am a very deadline-oriented person. But when I set deadlines I have learned that I have to make them... not flexible, per se, but real.

Let me segue into an example of what I mean. Our school has an auction every year as a fundraiser. The auction coordinator sets deadlines for donations, RSVPs, etc. Donations actually have two deadlines—one for turning the form in with the description of the donation, one for delivering the actual donation. People miss both of these deadlines. Every year the coordinator has to slip in a couple of last-second item descriptions into the catalog just before sending it to the printer—which involves a quick phone call to me, the catalog editor, asking me to look them over. Every year, a few donations are actually delivered to the auction site on auction night, instead of being delivered to school by the deadline. Yes, that's late. Yes, it means that some people come away thinking the deadline doesn't really matter. But the donation gets there, it serves its purpose, and all is well in the end.

It's the "all is well in the end" concept that is difficult for us deadline-oriented people. It feels dismissive of the work and stress and worry we've gone through to get to that point, especially when people don't seem to understand how much work and stress and worry we've been through.

Another segue: Back in CA we used to have to drive 2 hours to visit my SIL, who always insisted we come to her instead of her coming to us even though we were the ones with babies. Anyway. One time it took us FIVE hours because of traffic and detours and, with 2 small children and a car whose AC went on strike in the 100-degree heat and having to make stops for food and nursing and diaper changes, it was utterly miserable. When we got there and conveyed the story to SIL, her response was a very cheerful "Well, you're here now!" I felt completely dismissed. It was NOT fine, it had been a horrible, stressful, hot, LONG drive and I wanted some freaking acknowledgment of what we had been though and that we had gone through it all for HER! :mouthfull...ring a bell?

Here's where I fail to have any light-bulb advice for you. Many years later, I have somehow, I'm not sure how, managed to make an inner shift that allows me to appreciate the end result even if I don't feel like those who enjoy that result understand what I went through to make it happen.

Going back to the auction example, I've learned from the coordinator that deadlines are important but they have to be real, and you have to stay unemotional about both accommodating people whenever possible (no matter what their reasons for needing accommodation!) AND shutting the door when factors beyond your control or requests outside your reasonable ability make it impossible to accommodate them.

This is how I stay sane. I'm on their side until I can't be anymore. I remind, I nudge, I facilitate as much as I can... I help people get what they want even if they're late or forgetful or procrastinating or seem to expect the world... I holler to let people know the door is closing, and why it's closing!... but once it's closed, it's closed, and I move on both logistically and emotionally.

That's all ideally, of course. You bet I have moments of frustration and "they had 3 weeks! Why couldn't they blah blah blah..." and wishing I could make people see everything that went into this when it must seem to them that it's easy as pie. But that's the part that will drive me nuts, so if I can find that place inside that allows me to shift over into the appreciation of the end result, life is easier.

It helps if there's at least one other person to commiserate with—a co-leader. Someone to stand with you at the event to smile knowingly at each other, proud of your achievement and just a *little* bit :ohno: at all the happy clueless people enjoying the fruits of your labor. :p

So, in a nutshell, my advice is:
Set expectations up front.
Set up a system for putting out info and reminders.
Be on their side until you can't be anymore.
Put it all behind you and enjoy the end result.

It has taken me 2 hours to put this together and I have been interrupted MANY times so I hope it makes sense. I also hope it comes across as completely sympathetic to you, knowing how you feel, supporting you, with empathy for the other parents as well but mainly in support of you.

[Sue]

I wouldn't be telling the mother no. I woudl be telling her DD no. THAT bothers me.


Now if I get myself into a jam, I usually WILL ask for extra accommodation. I feel like, what's the harm in asking? But my preference would be that people would either say NO, it's not possible, or if they say YES, do so without bitching about me behind my back, or assuming I don't know how much work they do, you know?

There was a post recently about someone asking if they could take a younger sibling on a field trip. I TOTALLY ask that all the time! And to be honest, we can't go if we can't bring Jaden and Sawyer! So why would I not ask? If the answer is no, fine. Really, fine. But I'm not an ogre for asking, you know? If I missed a deadline, I'm going to ask for an exception. I think it's reasonable to say "yes" or "no" when someone asks for an exception without making it all about how they don't appreciate you etc. Not always easy (I can't say I've always been good at detaching emotionally from things like that) but really worth it mental-health wise, I think.

[ADDled]

I *think* I did everything you said EXCEPT the part about not being emotional when I have to say no. Part of that is because I BUSTED MY BUTT to make this happen for her (everything short of showing up at her door with the pen and permission slip.) So I am wrongfully (I know) insulted. But the bigger part of it is because I know I am not saying "no" to her. I am saying no to her DD.

With adults I do it ALL the time. My *gift* is to be able to play a scenario out 100 ways in my head, come up with contingency plans, and evaluate the worst case scenario if someone drops the ball. If I can't deal with the worst case (because it has a ripple effect on too many people) I will step in and make it happen. If I can deal with the worst case (like something doesn't get done) I let it happen and with adults I can basically say "I am sorry, you had all of the opportunities to get it done, it didn't happen." But when someone drops the ball and makes me say no to a kid I get emotional. I can't help it.

I can get over the insulted part, because I know I am just being irrational. But I don't know if I will ever get over the saying no to a kid part. I can't stop imagining this conversation -- "Oh sweetie I called to see if you could go. But Miss Sue said no. Sorry."

I had a parent drop the ball on something. And once I removed any effect it might have on the kids, I just told her no. Heck yeah, I was irritated that she called and asked for somethign in January that I already gave he in September. But I got over it. And there were not disappointed kids.

Anyway, I think I am going to print out your wonderful post as a reminder and reality check.

Thanks Tasia!!!
You're right about the kids being involved thing. Especially a kid that you're involved with regularly - if her mom lays it on you that's hard.

[mirage1]

I'm getting very frustrated because I've always felt like there wasn't much appreciation for the time and commitment it takes to do this and I'm really feeling it now.{{{Renee}}} It's truly not that flaky types don't appreciate what you leaders do, honest! Just because we feel embarrassed when we realize how much it puts people out when we're, you know, flaky...that doesn't mean we are unappreciative.

[mirage1]

Now if I get myself into a jam, I usually WILL ask for extra accommodation. I feel like, what's the harm in asking? But my preference would be that people would either say NO, it's not possible, or if they say YES, do so without bitching about me behind my back, or assuming I don't know how much work they do, you know?This is a great point, too. If someone asks me for something that's not realistic or isn't feasible, I say "no." And sometimes I ask other people for things that may not be realistic or feasible for reasons that I'm not aware of, and I hope like heck that they tell me "no" if that's the case! No hard feelings, you know?

I'm so relieved that Cassie's not in GS this year because I felt like I was constantly dropping the ball, and I don't need that extra stress. I'm sure her troop leader doesn't miss me, either. :p

[serialmom]

nt

[serialmom]

I feel terrible about it. I have to rely on other parents to take my kids on field trips, play dates, you name it. They're also in charge of my kids' safety. I have anxiety over this because of DS's allergies. He has to carry an Epi-pen, and the adult who takes him is taking on a big responsibility. I appreciate what they do for us. My anxiety, plus the way my kids have learned to remind me now that they're older, keeps me on top of this paper monster. We also have a huge cork board by the front door!

Reading your comments, I can truly appreciate how much you care and why this situation frustrates you. (((Sue))) I hope that rescheduling the trip works out and everyone has a great time.