Posting ST so I don't have to worry about losing my job too...much whining and rambling

[Sensitive Topic]

I had to participate in the firing of one of my three employees this week at work and it was awful. She was a good employee, customers LOVE her, and she was somebody I really liked but she and our manager have clashed since he was transferred here a couple of years ago. She didn't like him, mainly because of his attitude towards her, and he picked up on it and picked on her more. He insisted on the three of us sitting down a few months ago and he presented her with a harshly worded letter about her behavior towards him at work and how it needed to improve and the three of us had to sign it and send it to HR. It was basically setting the stage for what he wanted to do later.

I spent a lot of time --too much really -- talking to her about the importance of not letting her feelings about him show and if she would bite the bullet and be friendly and speak, it would help. I had these conversations before the letter about her attitude and after. She wasn't hostile to him but rather avoided contact with him and as a very shy person, couldn't meet his eyes when he spoke to her and that set him off worse. She wasn't in the right either. Sometimes, when you are in the boss's sandbox, you have to play by his rules even if it means faking the friendly to keep the peace. At the same time, I realize that he did what he could to force her hand because he wanted rid of her and he spoke to her like she was stupid. I get why she was unhappy and didn't like him but she couldn't get that she could have turned the situation around by reacting differently.

So last week, the situation came to a head and this past monday, she was out with a sick child. That day I approached him about it and tried to be tactful. Several things had been said or done by him that had very obviously picked her out among other people and she had not done anything wrong. He had written her up for some errors that were not errors - they were correctly done. He was angry that I even tried to show that she had done the things in question correctly. He took that as defiance on my part to him. The situation spiraled downward and she wound up losing her job when she came back the next day.

I feel terrible. The thing is that he was within his legal rights to let her go/bring about her leaving for the personality conflict between them alone. My efforts to get her to see that weren't fruitful enough because she needed to get onboard with them. I get that. But I knew she needed the job and I did what I could and got figuratively smacked for it. I hate the guilt part of being somebody's boss. She wasn't happy working there and there are a lot of people out there who would be thrilled to have the job. But my heart hurts. I have to compartmentalize - the part of me that just love her to death has to separate from the part that has to find somebody who is a good fit for the job.

[Bickery]

I guess I don't know specifics, this sounds more like bullying than personality conflict. You're blaming her for setting him off by being passive? She's being fired over lies? But that's okay because the boss doesn't like her. When someone picks on you, you do tend to avoid them, especially if you're not sure what will set them off.

I'm sorry that you're in a difficult position and that it's causing you stress.

I had to participate in the firing of one of my three employees this week at work and it was awful. She was a good employee, customers LOVE her, and she was somebody I really liked but she and our manager have clashed since he was transferred here a couple of years ago. She didn't like him, mainly because of his attitude towards her, and he picked up on it and picked on her more. He insisted on the three of us sitting down a few months ago and he presented her with a harshly worded letter about her behavior towards him at work and how it needed to improve and the three of us had to sign it and send it to HR. It was basically setting the stage for what he wanted to do later.

I spent a lot of time --too much really -- talking to her about the importance of not letting her feelings about him show and if she would bite the bullet and be friendly and speak, it would help. I had these conversations before the letter about her attitude and after. She wasn't hostile to him but rather avoided contact with him and as a very shy person, couldn't meet his eyes when he spoke to her and that set him off worse. She wasn't in the right either. Sometimes, when you are in the boss's sandbox, you have to play by his rules even if it means faking the friendly to keep the peace. At the same time, I realize that he did what he could to force her hand because he wanted rid of her and he spoke to her like she was stupid. I get why she was unhappy and didn't like him but she couldn't get that she could have turned the situation around by reacting differently.

So last week, the situation came to a head and this past monday, she was out with a sick child. That day I approached him about it and tried to be tactful. Several things had been said or done by him that had very obviously picked her out among other people and she had not done anything wrong. He had written her up for some errors that were not errors - they were correctly done. He was angry that I even tried to show that she had done the things in question correctly. He took that as defiance on my part to him. The situation spiraled downward and she wound up losing her job when she came back the next day.

I feel terrible. The thing is that he was within his legal rights to let her go/bring about her leaving for the personality conflict between them alone. My efforts to get her to see that weren't fruitful enough because she needed to get onboard with them. I get that. But I knew she needed the job and I did what I could and got figuratively smacked for it. I hate the guilt part of being somebody's boss. She wasn't happy working there and there are a lot of people out there who would be thrilled to have the job. But my heart hurts. I have to compartmentalize - the part of me that just love her to death has to separate from the part that has to find somebody who is a good fit for the job.

[Sensitive Topic]

I guess I don't know specifics, this sounds more like bullying than personality conflict. You're blaming her for setting him off by being passive? She's being fired over lies? But that's okay because the boss doesn't like her. When someone picks on you, you do tend to avoid them, especially if you're not sure what will set them off.

I'm sorry that you're in a difficult position and that it's causing you stress.

It's really difficult to condense the story into a few paragraphs. She did have a poor attitude towards him. He wasn't nice to her, that is true, but it didn't cross the line to bullying or harassment and he usually wasn't flat out rude. He wasn't aggressive about it although you could call him passive aggressive. His interpersonal skills aren't good but there's no rule against that. He made some comments that did make her feel stupid but they weren't malicious. Nothing quite crossed the line on his side. He could say good morning and she'd ignore him, that kind of thing. If he did try to be friendly to her, she snubbed him. Had she simply been courteous to him, it would have been a different story. Our company is big on supporting its "leaders" and upper management was backing him completely. You don't have to be likeable to be the boss but if you are the boss and you don't think an employee treats you respectfully enough, you can legally fire them.

I'm not saying it's right but it wasn't illegal.

[mirage1]

That sounds very frustrating, I'm sorry!

[Bickery]

It's really difficult to condense the story into a few paragraphs. She did have a poor attitude towards him. He wasn't nice to her, that is true, but it didn't cross the line to bullying or harassment and he usually wasn't flat out rude. He wasn't aggressive about it although you could call him passive aggressive. His interpersonal skills aren't good but there's no rule against that. He made some comments that did make her feel stupid but they weren't malicious. Nothing quite crossed the line on his side. He could say good morning and she'd ignore him, that kind of thing. If he did try to be friendly to her, she snubbed him. Had she simply been courteous to him, it would have been a different story. Our company is big on supporting its "leaders" and upper management was backing him completely. You don't have to be likeable to be the boss but if you are the boss and you don't think an employee treats you respectfully enough, you can legally fire them.

I'm not saying it's right but it wasn't illegal.

"Several things had been said or done by him that had very obviously picked her out among other people and she had not done anything wrong. He had written her up for some errors that were not errors - they were correctly done. He was angry that I even tried to show that she had done the things in question correctly. He took that as defiance on my part to him. The situation spiraled downward and she wound up losing her job when she came back the next day."

That's the part I meant when I said "lies." (bolded) Stating that someone made an error when they didn't in an official record strikes me as lying, though it sounds like it may have been a misinterpretation on his part.

I understand what you mean a little better now.

[niteowll]

"Several things had been said or done by him that had very obviously picked her out among other people and she had not done anything wrong. He had written her up for some errors that were not errors - they were correctly done. He was angry that I even tried to show that she had done the things in question correctly. He took that as defiance on my part to him. The situation spiraled downward and she wound up losing her job when she came back the next day."

That's the part I meant when I said "lies." (bolded) Stating that someone made an error when they didn't in an official record strikes me as lying, though it sounds like it may have been a misinterpretation on his part.

I understand what you mean a little better now.

I would be worried about working for someone like him. (he took this as defiance on my part to him) guess you can't stand up for yourself at all there. I think it sounds shady, and I don't think it was legal to fire someone for a personality conflict. I think even in an at-will state, you can fire someone for no reason, but they can still take you to court or get unemployment.

[Sensitive Topic]

The job is a great job and pays well in a place where going anywhere else would cost me 1/3 of my income and probably all my benefits. I like the other people I work with a lot. I don't think she should have lost her job over the boss's bad people skills. I feel very deflated over it. I tried standing up for her and it did not go well for me. I sincerely hope she can appeal somehow and get unemployment because she had kids and bills and I don't know how she can cover them. She won't have a problem getting a job if she can find one in this market because she's great and people like her but she'll have to take a big pay cut and I know she can't afford that.

I have gone over his head before about how he treats people and although I felt appeased at the time, it's clear that upper management stands behind upper management and I'm only middle mgmt. I can't afford to stick my neck out any more because I need my job. It is just a rotten situation and there isn't anything I can do about it.


I would be worried about working for someone like him. (he took this as defiance on my part to him) guess you can't stand up for yourself at all there. I think it sounds shady, and I don't think it was legal to fire someone for a personality conflict. I think even in an at-will state, you can fire someone for no reason, but they can still take you to court or get unemployment.

[AmericanMomma]

The job is a great job and pays well in a place where going anywhere else would cost me 1/3 of my income and probably all my benefits. I like the other people I work with a lot. I don't think she should have lost her job over the boss's bad people skills. I feel very deflated over it. I tried standing up for her and it did not go well for me. I sincerely hope she can appeal somehow and get unemployment because she had kids and bills and I don't know how she can cover them. She won't have a problem getting a job if she can find one in this market because she's great and people like her but she'll have to take a big pay cut and I know she can't afford that.

I have gone over his head before about how he treats people and although I felt appeased at the time, it's clear that upper management stands behind upper management and I'm only middle mgmt. I can't afford to stick my neck out any more because I need my job. It is just a rotten situation and there isn't anything I can do about it.

I can't help you at all but this post makes me understand my position much more clearly.

[serialmom]

Most of us work at will. We can be fired at any time, but this sounds like she was fired based on the culmination of harassment or discrimination. I'm sorry, but which came first, rude behavior from the supervisor, or the resulting attitude from an employee who is constantly belittled? Legal gray area unless you can prove discrimination. You said, "He did what he could to force her hand." Sorry, you can't defend this by also saying we're in the sandbox. I think you're defending a policy of being nice, even when ill treatment from a supervisor borders on harassment, and what you've described sounds like it's going there.

I wish I could be more sympathetic, but my DH went through a similar experience. He was fired, not for being sulky, but for being a professional while trying to avoid conflict with a nasty boss. He consulted two lawyers; not enough grounds to sue under current laws. I'm sorry you're in the middle of a bad management system, and unfortunately, there's nothing illegal about disliking an employee or employer, but you can't defend setting someone up to fire them. What if this was you?

[Sensitive Topic]

I am NOT defending it and that comment really upsets me. He didn't fire her for those "errors." He did it for the basis of her not being able to get along with him and that there was no improvement after the letter that went into her file a few months ago. He's got full backing for it from people higher than me.

I can't tell you which came first because one seemed to feed off the other. I am the supervisor of that employee and he's the VP over the entire office. This entire situation has been a huge energy suck for me for the last two years. I have played mediator and done everything I can think of to make the situation work for two years. Several times I have wanted to knock both their heads together and tell them to stop acting like pouty children. The truth of the matter is that neither one of them could let it go. Do I like his stance on this? No. I don't think it should have gone that way. I exhausted every avenue I had to try to resolve it until I realized the day before he let her go that I could no longer stick my neck out without risking my job, which I can't afford to do. I didn't have a choice in her losing her job and I did what I could but I have to tell you that after the first couple of days, there has been a definite reduction in the tension at work. I feel guilty that I feel relieved not to be in the middle of it.

The boss has bad people skills. I didn't make him my boss but that doesn't change the fact that he is and I love my actual job and there are no comparable ones I could go to. My employee had great people skills with customers but a resentment for him. She had her valid reasons for not liking him. My hope is that she can find something very positive in her life to replace this job and that life will reward her for what she's going through now.

I like her, worry about her and care about her but I could not change the situation before it happened and have no power to change it now either. It is what it is and I can really only go forward from here.

Most of us work at will. We can be fired at any time, but this sounds like she was fired based on the culmination of harassment or discrimination. I'm sorry, but which came first, rude behavior from the supervisor, or the resulting attitude from an employee who is constantly belittled? Legal gray area unless you can prove discrimination. You said, "He did what he could to force her hand." Sorry, you can't defend this by also saying we're in the sandbox. I think you're defending a policy of being nice, even when ill treatment from a supervisor borders on harassment, and what you've described sounds like it's going there.

I wish I could be more sympathetic, but my DH went through a similar experience. He was fired, not for being sulky, but for being a professional while trying to avoid conflict with a nasty boss. He consulted two lawyers; not enough grounds to sue under current laws. I'm sorry you're in the middle of a bad management system, and unfortunately, there's nothing illegal about disliking an employee or employer, but you can't defend setting someone up to fire them. What if this was you?

[Mary]

I don't think anime has anything to do with this person's situation...
you can read free manga Kaikan Phrase onlinehttp://www.MaxManga.com (http://www.maxmanga.com/)Kaikan Phrase 62 Kaikan Phrase 63 Kaikan Phrase 64 Kaikan Phrase 65http://www.maxmanga.com/pics/0807/20/24211837xmc.jpg (http://www.maxmanga.com/manga/1324.html)

[indigo]

I don't think anime has anything to do with this person's situation...

Actually I could totally see a manga version of this story.

[Mary]

Maybe I'm not cool enough to know manga? I thought it was a spam post.

Actually I could totally see a manga version of this story.

[Sarah]

Maybe I'm not cool enough to know manga? I thought it was a spam post.

It is, Mary. J was being funny again. ;-)

[Mary]

Maybe things like this are why my husband asked me today what I was smoking. :embarass:

[indigo]

Maybe things like this are why my husband asked me today what I was smoking. :embarass:

LOL. Well, I was trying to be funny anyway! But seriously can't you sort of see a comic book version of work place politics and drama? I'm not saying it would be good reading!

[Mary]

I always liked Dilbert. LOL.

LOL. Well, I was trying to be funny anyway! But seriously can't you sort of see a comic book version of work place politics and drama? I'm not saying it would be good reading!