Do you feel a certain threat as a woman?

[kathy caribe]

We have been TV and movie free for four years and watching the Battlestar Galactica series the last couple nights has made me realize that I am just not exposed to violence and sexual predators or violence any more. We generally watch movies like "The Bee Movie" or "Robots" or classics like "The Sound of Music" so we've been insulated from what I now perceive as American culture (rife with violence and sexual predators or threats).

Jamie and I were talking this morning and I shared with him (yet again) the fact that I am ALWAYS on alert/edge/aware whenever we're in the US. When we lived in a stick house I was ALWAYS very altert, checking out escape options, etc. and never felt completely comfortable walking the street (unless at a country fair or something like Disneyland or something) but even then it is always there in the background, "watch out".

And I thought this is normal and just what every woman goes through, the constant threat of violence or intimidation. But now I wonder. Thus the poll.

(btw, I have NEVER felt this way anywhere in Mexico)

[karunamayi]

Not at my farm, Ever.

In Vancouver, I am cautious, but looking at the climate, i expect my husband to be aware, too. I just can't fight back as ruthlessly as he can.

I am especially scared of going to my van at night in an underground parking. Actually, nightime anywhere.

[karunamayi]

oh, and I have been a victim of sexual assualt. Survivor, I guess.

[elizabeth]

I answered sometimes, but not an everyday feeling, it's very rare. I work in a big city, not in the best of neighborhoods, I stay late, I come in early (5 am).

I have decent street sense. I don't spend my life on edge nor do I feel that there is a constant threat around me. If I did, I would change my lifestyle.

[Sarah]

Only when walking alone at night past the bars downtown.

[Peggyann]

Here? Nope. Never.

In NY? I was scared all the time,,but I'm not sure how much of that was because of my gender, and how much was my AAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCKKKK! from being taken out of my "norm" and being put into an undesirable living situation (aka, welcome to the ghetto)

~PA~

[deeka]

I voted no. Probably not coincidentally, I have never been the victim of any kind of assault. Once I was followed by some young teenage boys while walking home (in broad daylight in the city). They rushed me and popped something really loud in my ear that sounded like a gunshot. Scared the bejesus out of me, but did not have any lasting affect in terms of my fear of public places/city streets. (It comforted me greatly that fellow pedestrians and a woman passing in her car saw the whole thing and stopped to make sure I was alright.)

I've been the victim of other kinds of crime. My car has been broken into too many times to count, stolen twice, and once my front door was kicked in in the middle of the night. (The perpetrator immediately fled.) But none of these things felt personal.

I live in DC, a city with a very high (but largely concentrated in particular neighborhoods--i.e., not any that I frequent--) crime rate. Honestly, if I couldn't vote no to this question, I couldn't live here.

[~PQ]

We have been TV and movie free for four years and watching the Battlestar Galactica series the last couple nights has made me realize that I am just not exposed to violence and sexual predators or violence any more. We generally watch movies like "The Bee Movie" or "Robots" or classics like "The Sound of Music" so we've been insulated from what I now perceive as American culture (rife with violence and sexual predators or threats).

Jamie and I were talking this morning and I shared with him (yet again) the fact that I am ALWAYS on alert/edge/aware whenever we're in the US. When we lived in a stick house I was ALWAYS very altert, checking out escape options, etc. and never felt completely comfortable walking the street (unless at a country fair or something like Disneyland or something) but even then it is always there in the background, "watch out".

And I thought this is normal and just what every woman goes through, the constant threat of violence or intimidation. But now I wonder. Thus the poll.

(btw, I have NEVER felt this way anywhere in Mexico)


I don't think Mexico is any different personally. I know when I was in Mexico I was leered at and made to feel uncomfortable, and certainly in border towns at least, young American women have been victimized in recent years.

In the US or anywhere I guess, I do feel a little nervous if there are a large group of men or a "shady character" man nearby and I'm alone.
Even here in my hidden away little paradise sometimes a boat pulls in and a group of strange men will walk around town, usually looking pretty dirty and drunk as they hit the town bars and I feel uncomfortable if I'm in a lonely situation with them. I wouldn't say I live in fear though, I think it's actually just being smart- being aware of your surroundings, recognizing potential threats and moving on as quickly as possible. I was a victim, but for me it's not really relevant because my assault was not a stranger assault, he was an acquaintance. SOmetimes the scariest of strangers are the ones you nknow well, I guess.

[deeka]

I live in DC, a city with a very high (but largely concentrated in particular neighborhoods--i.e., not any that I frequent--) crime rate. Honestly, if I couldn't vote no to this question, I couldn't live here.

Forgot to say: even though I know it is illogical (statistically speaking), isolated rural areas freak me out more than cities do.

[bannanabette]

No. I live in a very large city and I walk it all the time, including very late at night, after midnight, sometimes on relatively empty streets (but then again, not in bad crime areas). That's not to say that I'm not aware of my surroundings; if I'm walking out late at night I am aware of people walking behind me, shadowed areas and potentially unsafe situations, but also I've never ever felt that way because of my gender. In fact, it was two different men who taught me to be more aware by showing me how they were more aware and what they looked out for and what precautions they took, so I've never thought of being cautious as a gender thing at all. And I don't equate caution with fear. I also don't do it all the time or obsess about it, and if anything, feeling cautious tends to make me feel somewhat empowered, not intimidated (but not overly empowered - I think that would be foolish)

I've never been assaulted, though. Any harassment I've experienced has been of the annoying kind, or if it was meant to be threatening I didn't take it that way and have never been made to feel unsafe by it.

[Rosemary]

We have been TV and movie free for four years and watching the Battlestar Galactica series the last couple nights has made me realize that I am just not exposed to violence and sexual predators or violence any more. We generally watch movies like "The Bee Movie" or "Robots" or classics like "The Sound of Music" so we've been insulated from what I now perceive as American culture (rife with violence and sexual predators or threats).

Jamie and I were talking this morning and I shared with him (yet again) the fact that I am ALWAYS on alert/edge/aware whenever we're in the US. When we lived in a stick house I was ALWAYS very altert, checking out escape options, etc. and never felt completely comfortable walking the street (unless at a country fair or something like Disneyland or something) but even then it is always there in the background, "watch out".

And I thought this is normal and just what every woman goes through, the constant threat of violence or intimidation. But now I wonder. Thus the poll.

(btw, I have NEVER felt this way anywhere in Mexico)


I live in a big city with a high crime rate (although my neighborhood is considered relatively safe) and I don't feel unsafe. LIke Elizabeth stated, I try to use good judgement and have good street smarts, but to me, man or woman, your risk is equal. There are different crimes against women, but in general, I don't feel any less safe because I'm a woman.

[Jill]

We have been TV and movie free for four years and watching the Battlestar Galactica series the last couple nights has made me realize that I am just not exposed to violence and sexual predators or violence any more. We generally watch movies like "The Bee Movie" or "Robots" or classics like "The Sound of Music" so we've been insulated from what I now perceive as American culture (rife with violence and sexual predators or threats).

Jamie and I were talking this morning and I shared with him (yet again) the fact that I am ALWAYS on alert/edge/aware whenever we're in the US. When we lived in a stick house I was ALWAYS very altert, checking out escape options, etc. and never felt completely comfortable walking the street (unless at a country fair or something like Disneyland or something) but even then it is always there in the background, "watch out".

And I thought this is normal and just what every woman goes through, the constant threat of violence or intimidation. But now I wonder. Thus the poll.

(btw, I have NEVER felt this way anywhere in Mexico)

No, I don't. I am certainly aware of my surroundings when I am out and about, but not because I am a woman, just because I am alive and want to keep it that way and it's the smart thing to do LOL.
I was attacked once, and I knew it was coming, I could "feel" the danger as I walked to my apartment door. I fought like hell, and I wasn't hurt, and even after that I can answer no, I do not feel threatened as a woman.

[Meagan]

Not really...there are certain areas of the city that I avoid or am more alert when I'm there, but in general...no, not at all.

[Bickery]

Not really...there are certain areas of the city that I avoid or am more alert when I'm there, but in general...no, not at all.

I said "sometimes" and this is my answer too.

[aleutsi]

We have been TV and movie free for four years and watching the Battlestar Galactica series the last couple nights has made me realize that I am just not exposed to violence and sexual predators or violence any more. We generally watch movies like "The Bee Movie" or "Robots" or classics like "The Sound of Music" so we've been insulated from what I now perceive as American culture (rife with violence and sexual predators or threats).

Jamie and I were talking this morning and I shared with him (yet again) the fact that I am ALWAYS on alert/edge/aware whenever we're in the US. When we lived in a stick house I was ALWAYS very altert, checking out escape options, etc. and never felt completely comfortable walking the street (unless at a country fair or something like Disneyland or something) but even then it is always there in the background, "watch out".

And I thought this is normal and just what every woman goes through, the constant threat of violence or intimidation. But now I wonder. Thus the poll.

(btw, I have NEVER felt this way anywhere in Mexico)

I voted sometimes because while it is often, it's not everyday. But I don't like to shop alone, or walk through parking lots alone and I absolutely do not walk in parking lots alone after dark.

I heard a statistic yesterday that said Teenaged girls are at highest risk of being abducted by a stranger. This backs my fear for my DD as well as me because I evidently look like a teen girl :rolleyes:.

Also, DD was approached by a man in the women's restroom in our local Target. She went in and he followed her in, she stopped in front of the mirror and he went to the opposite side of the bathroom and gawked at her while she fixed her hair. She noticed him, got a funny feeling and turned tail and left the room immediately. He was right on her heels. :eek: fortunately he didn't grab her before she made it to where other people were. She felt like if she had gone into a stall, he would have done something.

In general, I do feel that women aren't as safe against muggings, abductions or sexual assult as men are.


And I voted yes on the last options, so that probably colors my perception. :dunno:

[Hobbes]

(I didn't answer the poll, but here are some thoughts :)...

Just thought this was interesting. WHen I am alone walking the streets, almost anywhere I am, I never have any fear or worries really. Guy says he doesn't either.

Yet when we are with each other, the fears, or at least worries, increase in certain places. We are obviously not just 'friends' when we are together. We don't PDA in public outside holding hands occasionally, but still.. body language, language...

when all three of us our out (and out of the Bay area), my radar goes into hyperdrive because I KNOW people are staring at us and some of the with hostility.

Though there are some difference to be sure, Guy and I were talking the other day how it shows to us the contrast that, as a whole, men and women experience in public.

As "men" in public, we don't think twice for our safety, yet as "not men" (and that is what sexual orientation differences boil down to really, deviance from the norm of "male"), we do.

We like the former, not so much the latter.

[Nancy]

I only feel that way when I am outside my familiar and known surroundings. I have definitely felt that way in Mexico! I think it has more to do with familiarity and knowing the people/terrain/surroundings than anything else.

I feel that way much more in big cities, but that's probably because I don't live in one.

[gfrach]

This is really interesting (and sad), Trey. Thank you for sharing this.

[gfrach]

Yes, and I know when it started. When I was dating DH, I often walked alone through a secluded park to and from visiting his apartment (maybe 1-1.5 miles from where I lived). I often used a walkman during the walk. He moved to a different place and I stopped taking that walk. A few weeks later a woman who had been jogging through there was raped. I felt so much like that could have been me!

(And FWIW, I am survivor of date rape and I didn't have this fear until I felt so vulnerable after that woman was raped which was maybe 6-7 years after my rape.)

I don't have fear at the mall, maybe a little fear walking in downtown. I won't go to the beach alone, hike alone, or even do these things when it's just C and myself because I feel much mroe vulnerable in less crowded places.

[Bonny]

there have been instances in my life when I've been fearful, but most of the time I am not.

eta -- why do you think you don't feel that way in Mexico?

[kokoro]

Yes, when it is night if I'm out I do have some fear. Well, even in the day time depending on circumstances. For example, one time two missionaries approached me during the day time. They were tall, strong looking young men. I was parking my car and had D with me. He was a baby at the time. I was rushing to get in the house before the approached me. NO ONE else was around on my end of the street. It was just me, my baby, and these two tall guys who *I don't know* (and even if they *looked* like missionaries they could have had malintentions and been posing as missionaries for all I knew.) I was *very* uncomfortable with the situation and felt threatening. I rushed inside. Our street is not one that anyone comes to except those who live here and I was not expecting or wanting to be approached at that time. I wish they had waited until I got inside my house and then rang the bell.

I would not have been fearful in that situation if I were a man, esp a man who wasn't with a baby.

At night when I return my shopping cart at the grocery store I'm very aware of what and who are around me and depending on this I am sometimes a bit fearful. I used to be very fearful in this situation, esp when I just returned from living abroad because we got a non-stop barrage of how dangerous America is when I lived in Japan, etc. usually I'm *not* afraid.

Oh, and parking garages, day or not, creep me out!

I know most men can't related to this fear.

[kokoro]

I forgot to say, I also would love to go hiking in the woods by myself but don't. If I were a man I think I would.

[gfrach]

I know most men can't related to this fear.

Yep, my DH doesn't get it at all.

[Debra]

Forgot to say: even though I know it is illogical (statistically speaking), isolated rural areas freak me out more than cities do.

Yep, I agree. I am much more comfortable in a city setting. nt

[Debra]

Very, very rarely. Getting lost at night in a very bad part of town would definitely set me on edge but to be honest I feel that I don't generally put myself in situations where it is more likely there could be a bad outcome.

I do carry pepper spray if I have my BIG bag with me, but DH bought it for me last year when we we had a phone stalker / harasser at my work. I usually open up the office and close it down alone and we felt it would be wise to get the pepper spray. The harassing lasted several months, but we all suspected it was someone that a co-worker knew (she gave her number out a bit freely and was way too open on MySpace about EVERYTHING, including where she worked and we are very Google-able - ugh...I do loathe MySpace). And sure enough, when she quit, the phone calls stopped cold turkey. If it wasn't for that incident I don't think I'd have the pepper spray at all, I just keep it in my big bag out of habit.

[~PQ]

I forgot to say, I also would love to go hiking in the woods by myself but don't. If I were a man I think I would.
It's always better to have someone with when you go hiking, if you are injured then the other party can go get help, if an animal attacks the other party can assist in stopping the attack, if you get lost then the other party can help brainstorm to identify where you are and how to get out.

Of course I type all this and it hits me maybe you mean like the little trails we had in SC at the local park- and those I'd certainly walk alone. Maybe I have already been in AK too long, LOL, because my first thought was "without a partner there is no talking to scare away the bears!"

[Jill]

(I didn't answer the poll, but here are some thoughts :)...

Just thought this was interesting. WHen I am alone walking the streets, almost anywhere I am, I never have any fear or worries really. Guy says he doesn't either.

Yet when we are with each other, the fears, or at least worries, increase in certain places. We are obviously not just 'friends' when we are together. We don't PDA in public outside holding hands occasionally, but still.. body language, language...

when all three of us our out (and out of the Bay area), my radar goes into hyperdrive because I KNOW people are staring at us and some of the with hostility.

Though there are some difference to be sure, Guy and I were talking the other day how it shows to us the contrast that, as a whole, men and women experience in public.

As "men" in public, we don't think twice for our safety, yet as "not men" (and that is what sexual orientation differences boil down to really, deviance from the norm of "male"), we do.

We like the former, not so much the latter.

Trey, I just want to tell you that I am very sorry that you and your beautiful family have to endure such arrogant ignorance every time you step out together.
I know that if *I* were to see you guys out together, PDAs or not, I would be only looking at you with pure admiration for being who you are in spite of society's negative views of your lifestyle. {{{hugs}}}

[kathy caribe]

Wow, I'm really surprised at the results so far. I think Rachael and Trey picked up my exact feelings. It isn't the fear or expectation of violence, but there is a big difference (I think) when a man walks down the street and when a woman walks down that same street. I think the man walks down, confident, without a care in the world and the woman walks down watching out. Keeping an eye out. That is the difference I'm thinking exists in general but the poll results look like it is only 1/2 the time.

For Bonny; the reason I think I don't feel the same in Mexico is because the crime is so incredibly less as compared to the US. Rape still occurs very rarely and child abductions are even more rare. I listen to the crime report every day on the radio, have watched TV all over Mexico, participate on various forums all over Mexico and while border towns will mimic the US large city issues, in general, Mexico is like the US in the 1950's.

Kristy, you probably were leered at due to cultural issues. When walking down the street in Mexico you simply Do Not meet the eyes of any man (especially!) but in general. In the US, we generally stride forward, meeting people's eyes with our heads held high. If you do that in Mexico, you are generally letting society know that you are "open". That can be defined in various ways and differ on a large scale. Women also do not walk alone. You have your kids, but generally, another woman with you. Otherwise you could be construed as "looking for company". In more cosmopolitan areas, this won't be as fine a line as less cosmopolitan areas and tourist areas are completely off the scale. I found this the case as long ago as the 80's in South America also. However, unless you LARGELY mislead someone, you are never in danger and your "no" may have to be said numerous times (hell, without even adding a sexual context, "no" generally means, "maybe another day" down here), but it will be respected. There is a LOT of respect down here for women. Most especially for mothers.

I know that I have always felt this way (threat to women, not to men) but it could be that I view the US as much more dangerous than it is due to the (by contrast) huge difference in crime down here vs. the US. It could be the distance from media also; I have no idea what the current social climate is, I'm just remembering. I do know, and I'm very much in the majority when it comes to US ex-pats, that I feel MUCH safer in Mexico than I ever did in the US. I don't know exactly why so very very many of us (I actually cannot remember ever reading a dissenting opinion) feel safer but I can guess it has a lot to do with the huge decrease in crime.

[Tracy]

That makes me sad. I'm sorry that it's still like that.(nt)

[indigo]

Wow, I'm really surprised at the results so far. I think Rachael and Trey picked up my exact feelings. It isn't the fear or expectation of violence, but there is a big difference (I think) when a man walks down the street and when a woman walks down that same street. I think the man walks down, confident, without a care in the world and the woman walks down watching out. Keeping an eye out. That is the difference I'm thinking exists in general but the poll results look like it is only 1/2 the time.

For Bonny; the reason I think I don't feel the same in Mexico is because the crime is so incredibly less as compared to the US. Rape still occurs very rarely and child abductions are even more rare. I listen to the crime report every day on the radio, have watched TV all over Mexico, participate on various forums all over Mexico and while border towns will mimic the US large city issues, in general, Mexico is like the US in the 1950's.

Kristy, you probably were leered at due to cultural issues. When walking down the street in Mexico you simply Do Not meet the eyes of any man (especially!) but in general. In the US, we generally stride forward, meeting people's eyes with our heads held high. If you do that in Mexico, you are generally letting society know that you are "open". That can be defined in various ways and differ on a large scale. Women also do not walk alone. You have your kids, but generally, another woman with you. Otherwise you could be construed as "looking for company". In more cosmopolitan areas, this won't be as fine a line as less cosmopolitan areas and tourist areas are completely off the scale. I found this the case as long ago as the 80's in South America also. However, unless you LARGELY mislead someone, you are never in danger and your "no" may have to be said numerous times (hell, without even adding a sexual context, "no" generally means, "maybe another day" down here), but it will be respected. There is a LOT of respect down here for women. Most especially for mothers.

I know that I have always felt this way (threat to women, not to men) but it could be that I view the US as much more dangerous than it is due to the (by contrast) huge difference in crime down here vs. the US. It could be the distance from media also; I have no idea what the current social climate is, I'm just remembering. I do know, and I'm very much in the majority when it comes to US ex-pats, that I feel MUCH safer in Mexico than I ever did in the US. I don't know exactly why so very very many of us (I actually cannot remember ever reading a dissenting opinion) feel safer but I can guess it has a lot to do with the huge decrease in crime.

The rape rate is lower in Mexico, but isn't the murder rate higher? (At least according to the stats I've seen it's about twice as high as the U.S.)

[Debra]

Wow, I'm really surprised at the results so far. I think Rachael and Trey picked up my exact feelings. It isn't the fear or expectation of violence, but there is a big difference (I think) when a man walks down the street and when a woman walks down that same street. I think the man walks down, confident, without a care in the world and the woman walks down watching out. Keeping an eye out. That is the difference I'm thinking exists in general but the poll results look like it is only 1/2 the time.

For Bonny; the reason I think I don't feel the same in Mexico is because the crime is so incredibly less as compared to the US. Rape still occurs very rarely and child abductions are even more rare. I listen to the crime report every day on the radio, have watched TV all over Mexico, participate on various forums all over Mexico and while border towns will mimic the US large city issues, in general, Mexico is like the US in the 1950's.

Kristy, you probably were leered at due to cultural issues. When walking down the street in Mexico you simply Do Not meet the eyes of any man (especially!) but in general. In the US, we generally stride forward, meeting people's eyes with our heads held high. If you do that in Mexico, you are generally letting society know that you are "open". That can be defined in various ways and differ on a large scale. Women also do not walk alone. You have your kids, but generally, another woman with you. Otherwise you could be construed as "looking for company". In more cosmopolitan areas, this won't be as fine a line as less cosmopolitan areas and tourist areas are completely off the scale. I found this the case as long ago as the 80's in South America also. However, unless you LARGELY mislead someone, you are never in danger and your "no" may have to be said numerous times (hell, without even adding a sexual context, "no" generally means, "maybe another day" down here), but it will be respected. There is a LOT of respect down here for women. Most especially for mothers.

I know that I have always felt this way (threat to women, not to men) but it could be that I view the US as much more dangerous than it is due to the (by contrast) huge difference in crime down here vs. the US. It could be the distance from media also; I have no idea what the current social climate is, I'm just remembering. I do know, and I'm very much in the majority when it comes to US ex-pats, that I feel MUCH safer in Mexico than I ever did in the US. I don't know exactly why so very very many of us (I actually cannot remember ever reading a dissenting opinion) feel safer but I can guess it has a lot to do with the huge decrease in crime.

My understanding is that rape is just rarely reported in Mexico due to the lax laws surrounding it.

"Rape is rarely reported or punished, owing to old social norms, minor penalties for the crime, and criminal laws. In some rural areas, penalties for rape may consist of a few hours in jail, or minor fines."

Mexico has a very high crime rate, and not just in border towns. However, obviously, I am sure there are many, many areas that are perfectly fine and safe, especially if you are basically living on the beach (which I thought you were, but I could be wrong).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Mexico

I guess my point is there is GOOD and there is CRAP everywhere you go. :dunno:

[~PQ]

Wow, I'm really surprised at the results so far. I think Rachael and Trey picked up my exact feelings. It isn't the fear or expectation of violence, but there is a big difference (I think) when a man walks down the street and when a woman walks down that same street. I think the man walks down, confident, without a care in the world and the woman walks down watching out. Keeping an eye out. That is the difference I'm thinking exists in general but the poll results look like it is only 1/2 the time.

For Bonny; the reason I think I don't feel the same in Mexico is because the crime is so incredibly less as compared to the US. Rape still occurs very rarely and child abductions are even more rare. I listen to the crime report every day on the radio, have watched TV all over Mexico, participate on various forums all over Mexico and while border towns will mimic the US large city issues, in general, Mexico is like the US in the 1950's.

Kristy, you probably were leered at due to cultural issues. When walking down the street in Mexico you simply Do Not meet the eyes of any man (especially!) but in general. In the US, we generally stride forward, meeting people's eyes with our heads held high. If you do that in Mexico, you are generally letting society know that you are "open". That can be defined in various ways and differ on a large scale. Women also do not walk alone. You have your kids, but generally, another woman with you. Otherwise you could be construed as "looking for company". In more cosmopolitan areas, this won't be as fine a line as less cosmopolitan areas and tourist areas are completely off the scale. I found this the case as long ago as the 80's in South America also. However, unless you LARGELY mislead someone, you are never in danger and your "no" may have to be said numerous times (hell, without even adding a sexual context, "no" generally means, "maybe another day" down here), but it will be respected. There is a LOT of respect down here for women. Most especially for mothers.

I know that I have always felt this way (threat to women, not to men) but it could be that I view the US as much more dangerous than it is due to the (by contrast) huge difference in crime down here vs. the US. It could be the distance from media also; I have no idea what the current social climate is, I'm just remembering. I do know, and I'm very much in the majority when it comes to US ex-pats, that I feel MUCH safer in Mexico than I ever did in the US. I don't know exactly why so very very many of us (I actually cannot remember ever reading a dissenting opinion) feel safer but I can guess it has a lot to do with the huge decrease in crime.


Statistically Mexico has MORE murders than the US, so the huge decrease in crime you feel is probably more a function of where in MExico you happen to be. Here in the US there are certainly areas more dangerous than parts of Mexico, but it doesn't seem to be a whole nation trend. Here are the statistics- http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders Statistically the US has many more reported rapes but I'd argue this is a function of our social service and criminal justice system. In the past few decades the US has really made incredible headway with victims rights, so victims are far more likely to report, both child victims, date rape victims (something that isn't even prosecuted in many countries), and stranger rape victims. I actually find comfort in the large reported number because its NOT swept under the rug. On the other hand, data like this can be scary and can help perpetuate fear of victimization.

I would guess a big part of why your expat community there feels the same way is in large part because of the type of person who is likely top be an expat to begin with. Someone perfectly happy with living in the US probably is less likely to be an expat in Mexico than someone who has had negative experiences in the states or has a negative perspective in general about the US. Again, geography of Mexico certainly must play a part as well- your area sounds wonderful and enchanting, and I am sure most of your fellow expats in that region feel similarly. This is like comparing my part of the US though, with say, Memphis TN. Such very different places with such very different crime rates.

[kathy caribe]

Crime in Mexico is generally one of two types. Political (involving politicians) and narcotraficante. If you're a cop or a narco or a journalist or involved with narcos you're going to be involved in crime and violence. But the rest of society is left alone. Armed robberies are very rare and always make the news. The last one in the entire peninsula (Yucatan state, Quintana Roo state and Campeche state) happened months ago and a task force was setup to deal with it. I can't imagine that in 3 US states an armed robbery would happen only once in months. AND it would be such an anomaly that a task force would be setup.

The crime stats (not sure where you're getting them from, but I don't doubt the validity) might show a high murder and violence rate, but it is almost completely in reference to drugs. Especially here on the peninsula. Every day you'll see (if you get the paper) a beheading on the front page, but it is always someone connected with narcos. Since Mexico does not (yet) have the drug problem that the US does (we just supply the US with their drugs) the crime is not of those looking to get high. I have never read or seen news of a drive by, of an innocent bystander being killed or of an armed robbery (other than the one months ago I mentioned earlier).

I think robbery is pretty much un-reported and corruption is probably higher in Mexico than the US (in the US it is simply covered up where here it is out in the open) but I really don't see those as violent crimes. I've refused to pay mordidas and never had a problem, never felt threatened or intimidated when I refused. Robbery is generally a crime of opportunity and very rarely involves arms.

I might have my head in the sand, but I do read the papers (not so often), listen to local radio and participate in Mexican forums (for a national view) and the consensus and experience is that Mexico has not just some, but a very noticeable crime difference from the US.

We actually live in an area with more crime than most of Mexico - this is the "drug coast" and the narcos are our neighbors. Literally. The coast we live on is the coast that the drugs land on. More politicians and narcos live here than most places in Mexico (though Sinaloa state and Guerrero state might give our small coast a run for the money).

[indigo]

Statistically Mexico has MORE murders than the US, so the huge decrease in crime you feel is probably more a function of where in MExico you happen to be. Here in the US there are certainly areas more dangerous than parts of Mexico, but it doesn't seem to be a whole nation trend. Here are the statistics- http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders .

And note that your statistics are TOTAL murders, not murders per-capita. The disparity becomes even greater when you take into account the population of both countries. There are many more murders in Mexico per capita than the United States.

[~PQ]

Crime in Mexico is generally one of two types. Political (involving politicians) and narcotraficante. If you're a cop or a narco or a journalist or involved with narcos you're going to be involved in crime and violence. But the rest of society is left alone. Armed robberies are very rare and always make the news. The last one in the entire peninsula (Yucatan state, Quintana Roo state and Campeche state) happened months ago and a task force was setup to deal with it. I can't imagine that in 3 US states an armed robbery would happen only once in months. AND it would be such an anomaly that a task force would be setup.

The crime stats (not sure where you're getting them from, but I don't doubt the validity) might show a high murder and violence rate, but it is almost completely in reference to drugs. Especially here on the peninsula. Every day you'll see (if you get the paper) a beheading on the front page, but it is always someone connected with narcos. Since Mexico does not (yet) have the drug problem that the US does (we just supply the US with their drugs) the crime is not of those looking to get high. I have never read or seen news of a drive by, of an innocent bystander being killed or of an armed robbery (other than the one months ago I mentioned earlier).

I think robbery is pretty much un-reported and corruption is probably higher in Mexico than the US (in the US it is simply covered up where here it is out in the open) but I really don't see those as violent crimes. I've refused to pay mordidas and never had a problem, never felt threatened or intimidated when I refused. Robbery is generally a crime of opportunity and very rarely involves arms.

I might have my head in the sand, but I do read the papers (not so often), listen to local radio and participate in Mexican forums (for a national view) and the consensus and experience is that Mexico has not just some, but a very noticeable crime difference from the US.

Violent crime in the US most often comes from 2 sources- domestic violence (which accounts sadly for the highest number of homicide deaths of women and children in the US, including pregnant women :( It also accounts for a vast number of sexual assaults and physical assaults), and drug crime (which often gets labeled "gang crime" but lets face it, gang crime is just another term for drug crime) Statistically, if your parents and partner are not abusive and no one in your household does illegal drugs, your chances of being a victim of violent crime are actually pretty low.

[~PQ]

Yes, I was looking at the rape data and didn't notice this until one of the comments made the point the US actually dropped to like #7 when rapes were counted per capita- which is still horrid, and yet again, I believe US reporting rates are much higher than in many other countries because our system for all its flaws DOES work for victims.

[Rosemary]

Wow, I'm really surprised at the results so far. I think Rachael and Trey picked up my exact feelings. It isn't the fear or expectation of violence, but there is a big difference (I think) when a man walks down the street and when a woman walks down that same street. I think the man walks down, confident, without a care in the world and the woman walks down watching out. Keeping an eye out. That is the difference I'm thinking exists in general but the poll results look like it is only 1/2 the time.

For Bonny; the reason I think I don't feel the same in Mexico is because the crime is so incredibly less as compared to the US. Rape still occurs very rarely and child abductions are even more rare. I listen to the crime report every day on the radio, have watched TV all over Mexico, participate on various forums all over Mexico and while border towns will mimic the US large city issues, in general, Mexico is like the US in the 1950's.

Kristy, you probably were leered at due to cultural issues. When walking down the street in Mexico you simply Do Not meet the eyes of any man (especially!) but in general. In the US, we generally stride forward, meeting people's eyes with our heads held high. If you do that in Mexico, you are generally letting society know that you are "open". That can be defined in various ways and differ on a large scale. Women also do not walk alone. You have your kids, but generally, another woman with you. Otherwise you could be construed as "looking for company". In more cosmopolitan areas, this won't be as fine a line as less cosmopolitan areas and tourist areas are completely off the scale. I found this the case as long ago as the 80's in South America also. However, unless you LARGELY mislead someone, you are never in danger and your "no" may have to be said numerous times (hell, without even adding a sexual context, "no" generally means, "maybe another day" down here), but it will be respected. There is a LOT of respect down here for women. Most especially for mothers.

I know that I have always felt this way (threat to women, not to men) but it could be that I view the US as much more dangerous than it is due to the (by contrast) huge difference in crime down here vs. the US. It could be the distance from media also; I have no idea what the current social climate is, I'm just remembering. I do know, and I'm very much in the majority when it comes to US ex-pats, that I feel MUCH safer in Mexico than I ever did in the US. I don't know exactly why so very very many of us (I actually cannot remember ever reading a dissenting opinion) feel safer but I can guess it has a lot to do with the huge decrease in crime.

And it's not fear that I'm talking about, just general street smarts and awareness of your surroundings. Again, I live in a city with crime, so maybe that skews things for me. Here's a story to make chills run down your spine. It makes me so mad and sad that this kind of stuff happens -

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/17078576.html

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/17215582.html

[Rosemary]

And I'm LOL because when I was in Mexico (in the town not the tourist section) I was on higher alert for crime to happen. Not sure why, but I suppose it was just being in foreign surroundings.

[indigo]

I don't feel more unsafe because I'm a woman. But I do feel more unsafe because I'm smaller and not as strong as the average man. I think if I was a really big, strong woman I'd feel OK. I've never had men leer at me or make suggestive comments or anything, but that's because I'm not that sexy looking I guess. (I wouldn't mind a little leering if it was genuine.)

The one situation that I sometimes find myself in when I feel most unsafe is the parking lot of a supermarket at night. I hate that.

[mirage1]

I listen to the crime report every day on the radio, have watched TV all over Mexico, participate on various forums all over Mexico and while border towns will mimic the US large city issues, in general, Mexico is like the US in the 1950's.That's interesting, because the first thing I thought when I read this was that a lot of crimes weren't reported in the 50's.

I chose "no" because I almost never feel any fear, walking down the street, either in my suburban area or in the urban areas I've been in in large cities--Seattle, LA, SF, NY, Chicago included. But I will admit that one of the reasons Cassie and I haven't gone camping is because the idea of being out in the woods (campground, middle of nowhere, either way) sleeping, where someone could just unzip the tent and come in, is a bit spooky for me.

[gfrach]

But I will admit that one of the reasons Cassie and I haven't gone camping is because the idea of being out in the woods (campground, middle of nowhere, either way) sleeping, where someone could just unzip the tent and come in, is a bit spooky for me.

I have a friend who regularly goes camping alone with her kids and I wish I could do that. But I just can't.

I really want to say that sexual assault and media over exposure aren't the only reasons some people feel fear. I know that our losses contributed to my fears. I *know* what it is to lose people I love dearly. I *know* that there are no guarantees in life. I *know* that shit happens no matter who you are and no matter where you are. Time helps with a lot of that, but I think that some of it never goes away.

[kokoro]

It's always better to have someone with when you go hiking, if you are injured then the other party can go get help, if an animal attacks the other party can assist in stopping the attack, if you get lost then the other party can help brainstorm to identify where you are and how to get out.

Of course I type all this and it hits me maybe you mean like the little trails we had in SC at the local park- and those I'd certainly walk alone. Maybe I have already been in AK too long, LOL, because my first thought was "without a partner there is no talking to scare away the bears!"

Kind of in-between. There are trails around our house. Our backyard borders land that isn't developed that we have hike. I know my way around there and don't think i would get lost, although several of my neighbors have gotten lost. Eventually you would come out somewhere but we once hiked over 20 min straight in one direction before coming to other houses. There is also a state park nearby that has trails that I know in detail and would not get lost while on them. I would LOVE to go alone. There are absolutely *no* people around when we go most of the time. It is the rare occasion we see anyone else. There is a nice island that is off the coast of my hometown that you can drive to and walk around. It is a 45 min walk with spectacular water views the whole time. You occasionally see other people when you walk it but mostly you are alone. I don't go there by myself but I would love to.

I would walk through a *park* by myself. I would walk around a place like Greenlake in Seattle by myself, etc. I would love to just go in the woods and sit/stand there sometimes by myself but I'm totally uncomfortable with that largely because I am a woman.

[aleutsi]

I really want to say that sexual assault and media over exposure aren't the only reasons some people feel fear. I know that our losses contributed to my fears. I *know* what it is to lose people I love dearly. I *know* that there are no guarantees in life. I *know* that shit happens no matter who you are and no matter where you are. Time helps with a lot of that, but I think that some of it never goes away.

Yes, my fear went up greatly after my loss. I absolutely agree with this.

And I also agree with what Jody said. I'm not fearful because I'm a woman, I'm fearful because I'm a tiny woman.

[Jill]

Kind of in-between. There are trails around our house. Our backyard borders land that isn't developed that we have hike. I know my way around there and don't think i would get lost, although several of my neighbors have gotten lost. Eventually you would come out somewhere but we once hiked over 20 min straight in one direction before coming to other houses. There is also a state park nearby that has trails that I know in detail and would not get lost while on them. I would LOVE to go alone. There are absolutely *no* people around when we go most of the time. It is the rare occasion we see anyone else. There is a nice island that is off the coast of my hometown that you can drive to and walk around. It is a 45 min walk with spectacular water views the whole time. You occasionally see other people when you walk it but mostly you are alone. I don't go there by myself but I would love to.

I would walk through a *park* by myself. I would walk around a place like Greenlake in Seattle by myself, etc. I would love to just go in the woods and sit/stand there sometimes by myself but I'm totally uncomfortable with that largely because I am a woman.

That makes me sad! I do it all the time. We have trails in the national forest and metroparks here that go seemingly forever in all directions, and I go for walks all the time. I went on a 6 mile hike today with my dog and it was pure bliss. So peaceful, so quiet, so utterly alone for as long as I wanted to be. I didn't see one other person the whole time and i wasn't scared at all. (and fwiw my dog is so NOT protection, nor does she pretend to be - she'd leave me for a scooby snack in a heart beat LOL)

I guess I have the mindset that a criminal is a criminal is a criminal and my being a woman doesn't make my chances of being a victim any greater - it just depends on the brand of criminal and the timing yk? It could happen anywhere at any time to anyone. Of course, like I keep saying, I am always AWARE, and I don't do foolish things like wander off the marked trails, etc...but it never crosses my mind to feel afraid *because i am a woman*

[Debra]

Crime in Mexico is generally one of two types. Political (involving politicians) and narcotraficante. If you're a cop or a narco or a journalist or involved with narcos you're going to be involved in crime and violence. But the rest of society is left alone. Armed robberies are very rare and always make the news. The last one in the entire peninsula (Yucatan state, Quintana Roo state and Campeche state) happened months ago and a task force was setup to deal with it. I can't imagine that in 3 US states an armed robbery would happen only once in months. AND it would be such an anomaly that a task force would be setup.

The crime stats (not sure where you're getting them from, but I don't doubt the validity) might show a high murder and violence rate, but it is almost completely in reference to drugs. Especially here on the peninsula. Every day you'll see (if you get the paper) a beheading on the front page, but it is always someone connected with narcos. Since Mexico does not (yet) have the drug problem that the US does (we just supply the US with their drugs) the crime is not of those looking to get high. I have never read or seen news of a drive by, of an innocent bystander being killed or of an armed robbery (other than the one months ago I mentioned earlier).

I think robbery is pretty much un-reported and corruption is probably higher in Mexico than the US (in the US it is simply covered up where here it is out in the open) but I really don't see those as violent crimes. I've refused to pay mordidas and never had a problem, never felt threatened or intimidated when I refused. Robbery is generally a crime of opportunity and very rarely involves arms.

I might have my head in the sand, but I do read the papers (not so often), listen to local radio and participate in Mexican forums (for a national view) and the consensus and experience is that Mexico has not just some, but a very noticeable crime difference from the US.

We actually live in an area with more crime than most of Mexico - this is the "drug coast" and the narcos are our neighbors. Literally. The coast we live on is the coast that the drugs land on. More politicians and narcos live here than most places in Mexico (though Sinaloa state and Guerrero state might give our small coast a run for the money).

I guess it is just a matter of opinion at this point. I frequently have to find inspectors to cover fabrication shop welding inspection jobs in Mexico. I have a very small list of inspectors that are willing to go. Most of them have been mugged more than once and/or had their car stolen while they were working there. I also have an employee that lives in Mexico and travels here to work. He is trying to get his wife and baby into this country (legally, of course) because he wants them out of Mexico because of the high crime.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4784666.stm (90% of Mexican women do not report rape)
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0309-03.htm
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA011705.1A.abortion.160643fa.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080331/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_serial_killer_1;_ylt=AhtBLSenlhgaFpAyz1MIEW Qdl.0A
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080315/wl_nm/mexico_migrants_dc_1;_ylt=ApeAvLGRtWQ9lZxFcZ3sRLYd l.0A
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080314/wl_nm/mexico_drugs_lawyers_dc_1;_ylt=ArKM0bIH7z23winKkwj dmncdl.0A
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7126594.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6476041.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6340993.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6337201.stm
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/02/04/mexico-shootings.html
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canada/2007/02/05/3531165-sun.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2007/01/31/tourism-mexico.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5322160.stm
http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=30389cb5-92fb-4924-ac74-737cd093e8fd&k=13693
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/02/23/mexico12712.htm
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20050707-1709-mexico-teenattacked.html
http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/miami/18991.html
http://www.ncmdr.org/press20jul.html (spousal rape is not considered rape)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/139019.stm

I'm not dissin' on Mexico, far from it. But crime IS a problem there, just as it is here.

[bumblebee]

I don't feel more unsafe because I'm a woman. But I do feel more unsafe because I'm smaller and not as strong as the average man. I think if I was a really big, strong woman I'd feel OK.

It's funny how different perception and gut feelings are. I often feel more vulnerable because I am a tall woman, and my height makes me feel more conspicuous sometimes. I think that a shorter man with average or even below average strength would likely be able to overpower me if he really wanted to.

[jump4joy]

Not usually, but occasionally. I do run by myself on trails, sometimes through forested areas, bike long distances by myself, and I've walked and ran by myself in big cities (like last weekend in D.C. at 5:30 in the morning or walking/taking the Metro by myself at night), I go camping a lot with the kids and without DH and I'm generally not fearful. There have been certain situations that have made me nervous - one night in a supermarket parking lot I was with the kids when they were really little and a man was walking across the parking lot toward us that I just knew in my heart had evil intent. I shoved the kids into the car and jumped in and locked the doors, and he veered away while staring at me. I don't know what he was going to do, but it was not good, KWIM? I also did not like living down a long rural driveway when the kids were little and DH worked nights, and it was one reason I learned to shoot our handguns. I would never use one in the urban area where we live now though.

In general, leering, catcalls, wolf whistles, etc. I don't find intimidating or all that bothersome. When I run or bike by myself I always carry pepper spray, but I've only ever used it on dogs (which is mostly why I carry it). I have been assaulted when I was in college, but by someone I knew. I don't tend to think of myself as naive - I know bad shit could happen at any time - but neither do I feel particularly fearful. I agree with Gavin DeBecker that if we tune into our intuition, it almost always tells us when we should really be afraid. I've felt that a few times and knew it was true, and the rest of the time I think we are actually safer if we don't live fearfully.

[Peggyann]

See, and one of the things that makes me feel safer is the fact that I am 6ft1 and I am very physically imposing. Not only am I as big (if not bigger) than a lot of men, but I have broad thick shoulders, and large muscles. I was a Corrections officer for a while, and my Lt. told me that even my walk said "If you touch me I will fuck you up"

~PA~


It's funny how different perception and gut feelings are. I often feel more vulnerable because I am a tall woman, and my height makes me feel more conspicuous sometimes. I think that a shorter man with average or even below average strength would likely be able to overpower me if he really wanted to.

[MorgnsGrl]

I really want to say that sexual assault and media over exposure aren't the only reasons some people feel fear. I know that our losses contributed to my fears. I *know* what it is to lose people I love dearly. I *know* that there are no guarantees in life. I *know* that shit happens no matter who you are and no matter where you are. Time helps with a lot of that, but I think that some of it never goes away.

*Hugs* I think this is interesting because for me, having had recent, painful reminders of the reality has made me LESS fearful. In my mind, knowing that people die at every age and for every imaginable reason, and believing that it has nothing to do with anything but randomness (because I don't believe there's a 'higher power' that is sentient) gives me powerful proof that there are no guarantees and reminds me that living in fear just makes my life shittier and destroys my ability to feel joy.

I am hesitant to post this because the last thing I want is to have anyone think that I am invalidating their own different, also-valid experiences. But I'm posting because I want to connect more with people here. :bag:

[kathy caribe]

I guess it is just a matter of opinion at this point. I frequently have to find inspectors to cover fabrication shop welding inspection jobs in Mexico. I have a very small list of inspectors that are willing to go. Most of them have been mugged more than once and/or had their car stolen while they were working there. I also have an employee that lives in Mexico and travels here to work. He is trying to get his wife and baby into this country (legally, of course) because he wants them out of Mexico because of the high crime.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4784666.stm (90% of Mexican women do not report rape)
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0309-03.htm
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA011705.1A.abortion.160643fa.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080331/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_serial_killer_1;_ylt=AhtBLSenlhgaFpAyz1MIEW Qdl.0A
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080315/wl_nm/mexico_migrants_dc_1;_ylt=ApeAvLGRtWQ9lZxFcZ3sRLYd l.0A
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080314/wl_nm/mexico_drugs_lawyers_dc_1;_ylt=ArKM0bIH7z23winKkwj dmncdl.0A
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7126594.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6476041.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6340993.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6337201.stm
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/02/04/mexico-shootings.html
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canada/2007/02/05/3531165-sun.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2007/01/31/tourism-mexico.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5322160.stm
http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=30389cb5-92fb-4924-ac74-737cd093e8fd&k=13693
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/02/23/mexico12712.htm
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20050707-1709-mexico-teenattacked.html
http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/miami/18991.html
http://www.ncmdr.org/press20jul.html (spousal rape is not considered rape)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/139019.stm

I'm not dissin' on Mexico, far from it. But crime IS a problem there, just as it is here.

I'm confused why you felt a need to post so many links to stories of narco-related crime when I've already admitted that narco crime is HUGE here. Perhaps you missed those points in my posts so I'll re-iterate, yes, narco-related crime is huge.

[aleutsi]

Being forced to act in a certain way (not making eye contact, having to say no over and over again, HAVING to never walk alone) hardly seems like a "LOT of respect for women" to me. I'll pass on that kind of "respect", thanks.

And honestly, not making eye contact and not walking alone is what I do when I'm fearful. Knowing that the cultural climate requires that behavior would make me fearful.

[kathy caribe]

Being forced to act in a certain way (not making eye contact, having to say no over and over again, HAVING to never walk alone) hardly seems like a "LOT of respect for women" to me. I'll pass on that kind of "respect", thanks.

It is not a forcing issue; it is an understanding of the culture and how the culture works and then making decisions based on that understanding. Whenever and wherever I have traveled I try to understand the culture because for me, the new ideas and different ways of doing things are the icing on the cake of travel. Talking to the locals and getting their take on life is also fascinating to me. To have the opportunity to see how things are done differently, how people think differently and all the nuances (some of which I'll never get) are what makes life interesting.

[gfrach]

But yes it is their culture but it's their culture also to see women as property which is why this type of behavior is necessary.

[gfrach]

Right, and that differs very much from my definition of "respect".

Yep, not the kind of respect I'm looking for. nt

[kathy caribe]

But yes it is their culture but it's their culture also to see women as property which is why this type of behavior is necessary.

It's not that simple.

[sarahrose]

Granted I do happen to live in a very safe town. I never feel like anyone is out to get me and I wouldn't feel concerned walking on campus at night. I could leave my door unlocked at night and not worry but I still lock it. While home I may or may not have my door locked. I ususally don't.

When in a larger city I am aware but never really concerned for my safety. Perhaps I may avoid the more "dangerous" areas of large cities but I wouldn't plan on going there anyway.

The lone time where I have felt a little leery and felt more on guard in the past year was in Vegas between the big fashion show mall and circus circus. I was shopping and was going to meet dh and the boys and I had to walk a less busy and unlit spot on the strip. I did feel a little uncomofrtable and held tight to my purse while in the dark section. But I was more concerned that someone would run by and steal my new undies and my purse...not really all that concerned about my physical safety.

When I travelled alone in Europe the only spot that I tried to avoid was right in front of the main Rome train station. There was always a large group of young men hanging out and it made me a little nervous. I wasn't sure if they'd do anything but I figured I should be more safe than sorry.

But overall I feel very safe.

[kokoro]

It's not that simple.

I would assume it is far more complicated than that just from my time living in other countries.

[Mumbly]

I try to be aware of my surroundings at all times and not walk around with my head in the clouds. I'm even more aware when my kids are with me, even as old as they are. I think they're pretty aware, too, but mama bear still has to protect her cubs, lol.
At Christmas time dd was working a few nights at the mall. She parks in the parking garage, but she was parking on the lower level and working on the second level. When she told me where she was parking I told her it she needed to either park on the second level or make O. walk her to her car when she left. She started parking on the second level and she was able to walk out to the parking garage when O. did. I don't think the safety issue had ever occurred to her.

[gfrach]

Oh, I realize I'm oversimplifying it. I do. I'm sorry. Care to explain it better? Because I'm sure you know more about it than I do.