Father of a dead Marine is ordered to pay the legal fees of Fred Phelps

[Tracy]

I believe in free speech but I want to know when does one's right to free speech infringe on others rights to have a funeral for their child without having ranting screaming freaks call your child names and spew hate?

It's so revolting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/29/father-of-dead-marine-ord_n_517614.html

[Tangwystl]

I think "Thank God for dead soldiers" goes beyond free speach, especially at a funeral. That is disgusting. That is a hate group. How can the courts be defending them. And how the f*&^ do people even begin to think that way.

[kokoro]

They are maybe going to be demonstrating at an upcoming play at a high school in my hometown. There is a difference between free speech and these actions IMO. I think they go into attempt to insight violence. We can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater. We can't threaten to hurt or kill someone. I think their actions can be reasonably interpreted as a treat because they or others they get wound up could easily take it to the next level.

I don't know how a group like that exists. How can anyone focus on only some aspects of a religion and take them totally out of context and forget about the positive aspects totally like being loving and not judging others. I don't get it at all and I feel very, very sorry for the children raised in that kind of hateful atmosphere.

I was just in my hometown and read an article about their upcoming announced protest there and was surprised by the list of things that group protests. It includes Sweden and stores that sell Swedish vacuum cleaners and the USA (they think our gov't is evil), and more.

I believe in free speech but I want to know when does one's right to free speech infringe on others rights to have a funeral for their child without having ranting screaming freaks call your child names and spew hate?

It's so revolting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/29/father-of-dead-marine-ord_n_517614.html

[Hobbes]

I don't understand, and that article doesn't explain, what did the father do exactly that he has to pay legal fees?


I believe in free speech but I want to know when does one's right to free speech infringe on others rights to have a funeral for their child without having ranting screaming freaks call your child names and spew hate?

It's so revolting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/29/father-of-dead-marine-ord_n_517614.html

[Hobbes]

This is where I have a hard time.

Fred Phelps and his ilk are revolting, I've had my run ins with him at several places now.. once attending (a gay-accepting) church, once attending a (PFLAG) conference and once attending a funeral of someone who died of AIDS.

AND it takes ALL my rational strength to try to defend their freedom to say these things. I'm not convinced one way or the other.

If they are inciting to violence though, aren't people like Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin and even some congressional representatives doing the same when they talk about Obama hating white people, the need to 'taking back the country", putting people in their 'sights', lock and load, bringing guns to protests, calling this administration a tyranny, oppressors, etc, etc, etc?

I think it is, nearly as much, perhaps more so since their bullhorn is MUCH louder, but I think they have the right to that speech perhaps as much as it scares me. I just don't know what we can do.


They are maybe going to be demonstrating at an upcoming play at a high school in my hometown. There is a difference between free speech and these actions IMO. I think they go into attempt to insight violence. We can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater. We can't threaten to hurt or kill someone. I think their actions can be reasonably interpreted as a treat because they or others they get wound up could easily take it to the next level.

I don't know how a group like that exists. How can anyone focus on only some aspects of a religion and take them totally out of context and forget about the positive aspects totally like being loving and not judging others. I don't get it at all and I feel very, very sorry for the children raised in that kind of hateful atmosphere.

I was just in my hometown and read an article about their upcoming announced protest there and was surprised by the list of things that group protests. It includes Sweden and stores that sell Swedish vacuum cleaners and the USA (they think our gov't is evil), and more.

[kokoro]

I think FOX does thing that cross the line by putting out stories that are untrue (not all but certainly some), and doing the things you listed.

I wonder if the type of protests they do at funerals fall under at least something like 'disturbing the peace'. I think we should have a right to bury people or have a funeral for people in peace. maybe more states should pass laws about how far away protesters must be at a funeral or rules against protests at funerals.

In Germany you can't claim that the Holocaust didn't happen. That's not covered by freedom of speech and I think rightly so. I think we have hate laws in this country that might be somehow strengthened to cover this type of thing.

I also think that until there are fully equal rights for homosexuals in the USA we will have trouble like this. I think the fact that we don't is part of the problem.


This is where I have a hard time.

Fred Phelps and his ilk are revolting, I've had my run ins with him at several places now.. once attending (a gay-accepting) church, once attending a (PFLAG) conference and once attending a funeral of someone who died of AIDS.

AND it takes ALL my rational strength to try to defend their freedom to say these things. I'm not convinced one way or the other.

If they are inciting to violence though, aren't people like Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin and even some congressional representatives doing the same when they talk about Obama hating white people, the need to 'taking back the country", putting people in their 'sights', lock and load, bringing guns to protests, calling this administration a tyranny, oppressors, etc, etc, etc?

I think it is, nearly as much, perhaps more so since their bullhorn is MUCH louder, but I think they have the right to that speech perhaps as much as it scares me. I just don't know what we can do.

[saffron]

I don't understand, and that article doesn't explain, what did the father do exactly that he has to pay legal fees?

I can't tell either. I wish the article had more detail. I'm guessing that he may have lost on his legal argument, and therefore whatever rules applied required that he pay his opponent's legal fees. But I'm not basing that on any more than an understanding that that is what sometimes occurs (there may be another reason).

[serialmom]

I don't understand, and that article doesn't explain, what did the father do exactly that he has to pay legal fees?

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/08/1799138_us-supreme-court-agrees-to-hear.html?storylink=omni_popular

Excerpts:
"Westboro, an unaffiliated church with fewer than 100 members, went from local curiosity to national notoriety after it began protesting military funerals. Church members believe the deaths of military personnel — as well as tsunamis, Hurricane Katrina and the 2006 Amish school shooting — are God’s punishment for the tolerance of homosexuality."

And this:
"Shirley Phelps-Roper, a church leader and daughter of Westboro founder Fred Phelps, said her sister Margie Phelps is likely to argue the church’s case before the Supreme Court. Shirley Phelps-Roper and Margie Phelps are licensed attorneys."

As the article said, they have 100 members. Where do they get the money to travel around the country, harassing people at funerals? It's interesting that they have two lawyers. Clearly, they're not as interesting in ministering to people as they are in harassing them and gaining attention for themselves.

Going before the Supreme Court will either make them or break them, and honestly, the way Bush stacked the Court, I'm concerned about the outcome. If their activities are protected and validated, what next? The "You made me hit you" defense? This is what many Teabaggers were spewing leading up to the vote on HCR. To paraphrase: "We have to warn Nancy Pelosi in order to - protect- her." This isn't free speech. They were threatening people, using words like "collateral damage." Death threats.

Anyway, sending the bill to the dad might be customary at this point. Not sure he can protect himself and not pay in lieu of a SCOTUS decision. I'd suggest everyone send him a dollar if he could hold it in an account in lieu of a decision, sort of like withholding rent from a deadbeat landlord until they fix your roof.

[Peggyann]

I know I'm not around much anymore, but why aren't these %&*(^$#(# considered the same as the Klan or any other hate group?

~PA~

[serialmom]

I know I'm not around much anymore, but why aren't these %&*(^$#(# considered the same as the Klan or any other hate group?

~PA~

PA! How are you?

According to Wikipedia, Fred Phelps is a disbarred attorney, but his church spends 200K a year in travel expenses. By law, they're only restricted from being within 300 ft of a funeral at national cemeteries, like Arlington. The Marine case is beyond frustrating. Snyder won his case. The judge told the jury that protected free speech has limits. Damages were reversed on appeal. This judge said the funeral protest wasn't a violation of privacy. How much does WBC suck? Bill O'Reilly won't have them on his show. He has the right idea. They thrive on attention and fighting in court.

I'm going to light a candle for this father and hope that WBC loses this case, goes bankrupt, and won't have a dime to travel on. They'll be stuck preaching this insanity in their own back yard, passing around empty collection plates.

[BlueMama]

Bill O'reilly is paying the $16,500 that the dad owes...

http://newsmax.com/InsideCover/oreilly-marine-funeral-protesters/2010/03/30/id/354287

[serialmom]

Bill-Oh's made a lot of money from propaganda. I'm glad he's using it to help someone, even if by extension he's helping himself.

[Kari]

I'm so glad for that dad! FWIW, Bill O'Reilly has also been a target of Phelps' group; it must feel good for him to deny Phelps the satisfaction of causing financial harm to the dad.

[~PQ]

I'm so glad for that dad! FWIW, Bill O'Reilly has also been a target of Phelps' group; it must feel good for him to deny Phelps the satisfaction of causing financial harm to the dad.What's so strange is, who ISN'T a target of this group?? They hate gays, immigrants, Jews, Catholics, mainstream Baptists, the media, the government, the military, Hollywood, Sweden (??!), and pretty much everyone else as far as I can see. So who exactly are hey trying to impress?! All 100 of themselves??

[Tracy]

Bill-Oh's made a lot of money from propaganda. I'm glad he's using it to help someone, even if by extension he's helping himself.

*LOL* I couldn't agree more!

[Tracy]

What's so strange is, who ISN'T a target of this group?? They hate gays, immigrants, Jews, Catholics, mainstream Baptists, the media, the government, the military, Hollywood, Sweden (??!), and pretty much everyone else as far as I can see. So who exactly are hey trying to impress?! All 100 of themselves??

Right! Don't forget the Amish !! *LOL* They hate them too. Pretty much anyone who breathes air and isn't named Fred Phelps and Family.

[Kari]

Sweden? :rofl: I hate to even ask, but what is their basis for chosing groups to hate? I had to google why they target military funerals. (Which still doesn't make sense - because they are against gays, they protest at the funerals of non-gay soldiers? Huh?)

[Hobbes]

Just color me a grouchy cynic here.

They've been picketing and doing/saying vile things to gay people, dead and alive, for over decades. Now Bill O'Reilly and his ilk cares?

something about... they came after the jews, but I was not a jew so I did nothing... they came after the catholics, but I was not catholic... etc, etc.. when they came after me there was no one else...
comes to mind...

:/

But I'm happy for the father.

Bill O'reilly is paying the $16,500 that the dad owes...

http://newsmax.com/InsideCover/oreilly-marine-funeral-protesters/2010/03/30/id/354287

[BlueMama]

I'm happy for the dad, as well. I didn't know that Bill-O had been targeted by Phelps, himself, and I couldn't figure out what his angle is.

[~PQ]

I'm happy for the dad, as well. I didn't know that Bill-O had been targeted by Phelps, himself, and I couldn't figure out what his angle is.Well it's one of those rare moments when both the left and right have a dog in the hunt- the right tends to be VERY pro-military and very supportive of military families. The left of course knows it is vile and hateful to target people for hatrid because they're gay or an immigrant. Phelps manages to piss them both off, with the exact same action- protesting a dead soldiers funeral because gays live in America. It's crazy.

[kokoro]

Check out this wonderful video of a counter protest at a high school. Amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEiwBCpiA0E&feature=player_embedded

[Hobbes]

like :D /nt
Check out this wonderful video of a counter protest at a high school. Amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEiwBCpiA0E&feature=player_embedded

[BlueMama]

Love it!